Pierre3 wrote:

Only the gobshites in Downing Street could think that is a good idea to let the Chinese have 50% ownership of new nuclear power stations that were going to be built with EDF. What complete prat thought that one up.

and when you consider that EDF stands for Electricitie Distribution Francais and it is the French nationalised power company, that means our nuclear power stations will be 50% owned by the Chinese and 50% owned by the French......

Going back a few years I was chatting with an engineer at Orange, the mobile phone network. The French network SFR, run by the French nationalised telecoms, had changed it's trading identity to Orange but, as a nationalised industry its profits were capped in France. So simple answer, buy out a UK company and use that to generate uncapped profits. Same goes for Veolia the waste management company, also French.

So, I gave E85 a try in my GEMS to see if it would run on it as well as Nigel's Thor does. Managed to find LPG round here on Saturday so filed the LPG tank. That would give me 200+ miles range on that. Had a little normal E10 fuel in the tank (range was being shown as just over the 50 mile threshold when it stops telling you how much you have) so bunged 40 litres of E10 in it so the gauge was showing half full. Ran on LPG down to Dover, off the ferry at Calais and straight into the Total station just outside the docks. Refilled the LPG tank at 0.99 Euros (so roughly 82p, more expensive than some stations here but cheaper than the MFG operated station in Dover at 90ppl) and also put 40 litres of E85 in at 0.89 Euro per litre (compared with 2.10 Euro, or around £1.75 for E10) taking it up to just over 3/4 of a tank, which probably caused my fuel gauge to suffer a nosebleed as it has never been that high in the 12 years I've owned the car. Reset the trip computer, plugged in the Nanocom, reset the adaptive values, set it to monitor the lambda sensors and set off.

Initially I would be running on the E10 that was in the pipes, filter and fuel rail so nothing changed. Then as, presumably, the E85 got there, it didn't feel quite as smooth, almost as if there was a slight misfire. Once on the motorway it ran as expected and was smooth cruising at 70 mph, lambdas both switching even though the short term trims were always going positive showing it needed more fuel than on E10 which is only to be expected. Under normal acceleration it was fine but under light acceleration it still felt like it was misfiring and holding back slightly. I had 170 miles to do before heading back and during this time it seemed fine with the trip showing 16mpg. Can't really compare this as I've run on petrol so rarely I don't know what it reads on petrol but it would seem to compare with Nigel's findings of a drop to 14mpg when on 100% E85. Other than the feeling of a slight misfire under light acceleration, it ran normally, no loss of power, temperature staying normal (if not a couple of degrees lower than normal), idle smooth and starting normal.

Arrived where I needed to be and the fuel gauge was showing just under half a tank. Set off to head back to Calais for the return journey and it was just the same, smooth when cruising but with the feeling of a slight misfire under light acceleration. About halfway through the return journey, I noticed an odd smell but couldn't work out what it was or if it was from me, another vehicle travelling in front of me (like when you can smell the exhaust from a diesel being run on paraffin or used chip oil) or from an industrial plant I had just driven past. Couldn't really put my finger on what the smell was either. Figured it must be from another vehicle as I hadn't noticed it on that same stretch of road on the way down particularly when it seemed to disappear only to reappear later. By this time I had reached the A26 so there was nothing else around me, no traffic, no industry, just a clear road and open fields so the smell must be coming from the car. Initially thought it could be the cats overheating but discounted that as it was still running at normal temperature but decided to err on the safe side and switched over to LPG and ran on that for the rest of the way back to Calais. By this time the fuel gauge was showing down to 1/4 tank so roughly 25 litres left meaning I wouldn't quite have managed the whole 340 mile round trip on the one tankful but still a decent range between refuels with another 210-220 on a tank of LPG. Topped up the LPG tank again at Calais sand ran on that for the rest of the return journey.

Thinking about it later, although the engine coolant temperature was normal, the conversions that can be fitted to allow running on E85, advances the ignition timing so it would have been retarded for the fuel. Retarded ignition would result (I think) in higher exhaust temperatures so it could well have been the cats complaining that they were getting too hot. Nigel's car still has the original huge LR cats on it whereas I have much smaller aftermarket ones which again might be relevant. Why it ran fine for the first 250 miles or so before it started to generate a smell I can't explain. Or, it wasn't the car at all but was from something outside and I switched over to LPG at the point I would have lost it anyway, who knows?

I've since noticed (after putting another 40 litres of petrol in it) that it doesn't run quite as smoothly on petrol as on LPG anyway. I'd never really taken that much notice as I run on petrol so rarely and for such short distances I don't have a benchmark to compare. It doesn't have the feeling of a misfire, and accelerates normally but doesn't idle as smoothly. It's unlikely to be ignition related as LPG needs a better spark than petrol and it runs fine on that (plugs are only 6k miles old too) although due to lack of use, it's quite possible the petrol injectors are gummed up and need a clean which would explain the slight roughness under acceleration.

So the conclusion is that for Nigel, who's P38 is now on French plates so an LPG conversion isn't viable as to pass the CT, the French MoT, the LPG system needs to be installed using a Government approved installer using a Government approved system for the car (if there even is one for the P38). For his use it might be worth fitting the £800 E85 conversion so the economy on E85 will be back up to, or better than, E10 levels which really will make it cheap to run. For me, is it worth completely overhauling the petrol system when it gets hardly any use and LPG is widely available in Europe (even though it has been withdrawn from some of the French motorway services, there's still plenty of places to fill up) at the same price or, with the exception of France, cheaper than here? If I get really bored or have another reason to take the injectors out, it might be worth getting them cleaned but I can't honestly see it is worth it. I could live with the misfire if I was really stuck but the odd smell was what concerned me more. Was it coming from the car and my cats were about to set fire to the underside of the car or was it outside and would have stopped at the point I switched to LPG anyway? But, an interesting experiment nonetheless.

Not used DFDS for a few years but they used to be very good. As they also do a similar season ticket scheme to that offered by P&O at a similar price but it includes a meal, I'll be giving them a try next time and, unless there's anything I don't particularly like, will be getting a DFDS season ticket. The only downside is that while their crossings are regular, not all are Dover-Calais, some of Dover-Dunkirk. DFDS introduced a couple of new ferries a few years ago which, at the time were the biggest on the route and I used them a few times. Only when P&O introduced their Spirit of Britain and Spirit of France ferries did they loose the biggest on the Channel title. Although considering Spirit of Britain, along with the smaller Pride of Canterbury and Pride of Kent, is tied up in Dover harbour, Pride of Burgundy is tied up in Dunkirk and Spirit of France is halfway through a refit in Rotterdam, none are going anywhere at the moment.

When I checked for yesterday an outbound around 09:00 with the return at 22:00, DFDS wanted £155 while Irish Ferries was £124. The only pandemic restrictions now, assuming fully jabbed and boosted, are that the French want a signed declaration that you don't have any symptoms and haven't knowingly contacted anyone who is positive in the last week and proof of vaccination status. In saying that, I handed my passport and declaration to the French Immigration lady on my way out and she gave me the declaration back and only wanted to see my vac status on my phone from the NHS app. No restrictions at all coming back, not even the dreaded passenger locator form. Can't predict anything on wars or fuel prices though, my crystal ball isn't that good......

Rather than allowing this discussion to get lost in a totally unrelated thread, I thought I'd move it to it's own dedicated thread. Some forum software allows posts to be moved to a new thread but if it can be done on this one, I can't see how, hence the multiple quotes.

Gilbertd wrote:

I've been using P&O for years and have a season ticket (fixed, cheap price, irrespective of time of year, school holidays, etc) with 3 return Dover-Calais crossings left on it. In the last year or so they have removed the restaurants so you could no longer get a proper meal on the crossing and other things that suggested they were cutting costs. Going over to Paris in the morning and was going to call them to book it against my season ticket when the news broke. They are advising people with a P&O booking to go to the DFDS check in so figured that would be booked solid and almost certainly delayed so I checked the price with Irish Ferries who have been running a Dover-Calais service since last year and have booked with them. Cheaper than DFDS and only slightly more than my pre-paid season ticket would have been but shouldn't be any problems. P&O are saying they will be back up and running in 7-10 days but I very much doubt it, I suspect they are dead and gone and even if they aren't, they will be very soon. If I can get a refund on the unused crossings on my season ticket, I'll just use that to buy a DFDS season ticket or an Irish ferries one (if they do one). I too won't be using P&O ever again either.

Lpgc wrote:

It's a bit alarming to hear about P&O, I don't know all the ins and outs but on first consideration it doesn't seem legal re UK employment law what they're doing. I also see this as likely the end of P&O. Not that it's really relevant or an important factor but I have to wonder if this could also have minor impact on my business, because if people wonder about being able to get their LPG converted vehicle abroad in future (and since they can't take their LPG vehicles through the Chunnel) there's the possibility a minority of customers could be put off LPG conversion.

BrianH wrote:

The ferries generally aren't a problem - Stenna Line say nothing about LPG and I've used them multiple times, Irish Ferries or DFDS (one of them can't remember which) Just say something about it needing to be shut off when on the ferry (Can't remember exact wording, but it didn't seem like they wanted you to manually operate the shutoff on the tank, and not something they could easily check). The impression I got at the time was that if the gas was shut off when the ignition was off then this was good enough (so the electronic valve would do this).

May be different on the routes to Europe rather than Ireland, but it didn't seem to be a problem. Might have changed in the last few years as its been a while since I've been out that way.

I can't see P&O surviving this, it seems a desperation measure as they would be forced to try and compete on price to attract any custom. Seems odd they removed the restaurants as my experience of them is theres very little to actually do on the ferry whilst your crossing and it seems an easy money maker. Though I guess a 90 minute crossing is a bit different to a 4 or 8 hour one to Ireland depending where your going from/to.

nigelbb wrote:

All the ferry companies are OK with LPG conversions. It's only the channel tunnel that won't take them as they aren't licensed to take them. Apparently as LPG wasn't a big thing when they were designing the tunnel they didn't get carrying LPG powered vehicles signed off as safe & now it's too much hassle & expense for them to get it done. Maybe after the P&O debacle they might open to some lobbying. If we travel Dover->Calais we always use the tunnel as it's so much simpler & a little quicker never mind nicer during winter weather. Our place is in Brittany so we always prefer to use Brittany Ferries especially the Portsmouth->Saint-Malo route. It's a 12 hour overnight trip but you get a good night's sleep & then it's under 1.5 hours drive to our cottage whereas if we go via Calais it's a six hour drive.

I too will never use P&O & agree that they will go out of business They have misjudged the outrage their actions have caused

As most of you know I regularly use the Dover-Calais route (only got back in the early hours of this morning) and for a number of years I have been using P&O season tickets which were good value. You buy a block of crossings, 3 returns, 5 returns, etc at a fixed price, so the price is the same irrespective of whether it is school holidays, bank holidays, etc which would normally push the price up. It is also fully flexible so you get on the next crossing irrespective of what crossing you are actually booked on. I've often been asked why I don't use the tunnel as it is quicker but, ignoring for the moment the fact that I'm running on LPG and they don't allow LPG powered vehicles, while the actual crossing time may be quicker, overall there isn't a lot to choose. Loading takes longer, unloading takes much longer and apart from anything else, it is boring sitting in your car, in a train, in a tunnel with nothing to look at for the crossing time. My other, and main reason, is that while the tunnel may be better if you are just nipping over to Calais for a booze cruise, if you've got any distance to drive once the other side of the Channel, you're going to have to stop for food at some point. So why not use the ferry where you can sit in a restaurant, browse the duty free shop, sit down and relax in one of the lounges (unless there's half a dozen coachloads of schoolkids on a school trip) and generally relax out of the car? There was nothing better than a P&O full English to set you up for the drive ahead of you.

The P&O ferries used to have the Food Court, a cafeteria style restaurant with a choice of 4 or 5 meals in the afternoon and evening or various breakfast options in the mornings, and the Brasserie, a waitress service, a la carte restaurant that, while a bit more expensive, was excellent. With the Covid restrictions on travel, changes were made over a period due to the much lower level of tourist traffic. When restrictions started to be relaxed around September 2020, the Brasserie was closed and rather than having the food pre-cooked in the Food Court, it would be cooked to order. By August 2021, the Food Court was closed but tourist passengers were allowed to use the Routemasters restaurant that normally would only be open for freight drivers. Food was, if anything, better quality and cheaper than the Food Court (full English and a mug of coffee for a fiver). By December last year, the Brasserie had been removed and the Food Court renamed the Food Market with a choice of pre-packed sandwiches or, the only hot options, a soggy panini or probably the worst pizza I have ever had. Non freight passengers were no longer allowed to use the Routemasters either, so no proper food. They had however, opened the Club Lounge (taking the space that used to be occupied by the Brasserie), an extra cost option but with unlimited food and drink. Tried it in January and while it was very nice and comfortable, with help yourself tea, coffee, beer, spirits, etc the only hot food options were a bacon roll or the aforementioned panini or pizza. This despite the kitchen that had formerly been used by the Brasserie was still there, just not being used. When I spoke to the staff, they didn't think it a good idea at all and while there weren't too many tourists travelling at the time, once restrictions were lifted then things should return to normal. Although I was told that the staff that used to run the restaurants had already been made redundant so reinstating things wouldn't be as simple as just opening up the doors.

It seems obvious to me that the Dubai based owners don't understand how the ferries work. Yes, probably all operators have been running at a loss while they have had to rely on the freight traffic but give it another couple of weeks and tourist traffic will almost certainly return to the previous levels. The other operators, DFDS and Irish Ferries, who took over the Dover-Calais route in June last year after Sea France stopped running on the route (although they never really got started from what I could see), will now reap the benefits of P&O disappearing as I very much doubt they will be back. Even if they do come back in 7-10 days as they are saying, I suspect hardly anyone will risk using them in the future. If anyone is prepared to risk P&O they will only do it once after they discover they can no longer get something to eat and have to resort to French motorway services instead. Driving into the port at Calais last night, the overhead signs simply said "P&O, No Departures", not what you want to see if you've been away for a few days and not been keeping up with the news,

I had intended using one of the 3 remaining crossings on my season ticket to go over yesterday but the announcement came before I had called them to confirm the crossing times. DFDS are taking passengers that had booked with P&O so I figured they might be busy and, as I had a pretty tight schedule, couldn't afford any delays. Irish Ferries were about £30 cheaper than DFDS too so gave them a try. The ship, the Isle of Inishmore, was more luxurious than any of the P&O ships, all the restaurants were working (and busy), the only downside being the crossings aren't as regular as the others due to them only having 2 ships doing the crossing. Just got to see if I can get a refund on the unused crossings on my P&O season ticket now......

www.realsteel.co.uk/section1.pdf, page 5 right hand side.

For reconditioned heads, give V8 Developments a call (http://www.v8developments.co.uk/index.shtml), their website is being worked on but the phone number is there.

If you screw the studs into the block then try to fit the heads over them, they probably won't go on as other stuff will get in the way. You put the head onto the block, screw the studs in like you would if they were a bolt, nip them up using the hex hole in the end (they do just need nipping up, they don't need to be tight but make sure you have cleaned any oil or coolant out of the holes so they screw in fully) then lube the washers and fit them and the nuts. Tighten in the correct sequence, to 30, then 50 then 65ft/lbs.

and you've left it private so we can't see it. See https://rangerovers.pub/topic/2304-hosting-your-images-on-google-drive

@Pierre, if you've only just got the new pipes and not fitted them yet, how did you get through the MoT?

Got it working then? How much for LPG round your way?

Just checked and you are right, the only part number is for the complete unit, not the innards. A picture might help as I suspect it isn't going to be unique to the P38 as the R380 gearbox was used in quite a few others. Maybe it will be listed for the same gearbox but in a Disco or Defender?

I've been using P&O for years and have a season ticket (fixed, cheap price, irrespective of time of year, school holidays, etc) with 3 return Dover-Calais crossings left on it. In the last year or so they have removed the restaurants so you could no longer get a proper meal on the crossing and other things that suggested they were cutting costs. Going over to Paris in the morning and was going to call them to book it against my season ticket when the news broke. They are advising people with a P&O booking to go to the DFDS check in so figured that would be booked solid and almost certainly delayed so I checked the price with Irish Ferries who have been running a Dover-Calais service since last year and have booked with them. Cheaper than DFDS and only slightly more than my pre-paid season ticket would have been but shouldn't be any problems. P&O are saying they will be back up and running in 7-10 days but I very much doubt it, I suspect they are dead and gone and even if they aren't, they will be very soon. If I can get a refund on the unused crossings on my season ticket, I'll just use that to buy a DFDS season ticket or an Irish ferries one (if they do one). I too won't be using P&O ever again either.

No you aren't wrong, that is perfectly correct. The sensor is pushed in as far as it will go and on the first rotation of the wheel it is pushed out to the correct place. Once it is in and with the spacing correct, it should stay there.

I've got to go over to Paris tomorrow so will be trying E85 in my GEMS to see what it runs like on it. I'll still have LPG as well but as LPG is around 1 Euro a litre in France and the consumption is roughly the same as Nigel is getting on E85, it'll be cheaper too. Apparently, the exhaust fumes smell like you are running on Vodka (now there's another option......).

No, that is part number STC4412 and has the green cover over the bulb. Unfortunately it is NLA from JLR and the usual suspects although this place seems to have them https://www.businessmindltd.co.uk/view-product/land-rover-range-rover-1994-to-2001-bulb-holder-part-stc4412/3/7/213/24467

Get some spares as they are the same bulbs as used in the other warning lamps. Not only that but they sometimes stick in the holders and break.....

Stopped my drivers window from wobbling as I open or closed it. Had a look the other day as it had reached the point where sometimes the anti trap would kick in halfway up when closing from fully open and noticed that the plastic guides that sit in the runners were decidedly worn. Although the JLR site said they were NLA, LRDirect had them listed as OEM and in stock so ordered a couple.

The reason for the wobbly window is pretty obvious when comparing the old and the new

But what I found more interesting was the OEM new ones. Made by Febi Bilstein and appear to be a BMW part......

There's 3 bulbs behind it. Bulbs starting to blacken and dirt on the contacts where they go in is the usual reason for it being dull. They are RTC3635, 12V 1.2W capless push in types.

Crude oil cost shot up to over $130 a barrel and everyone presumably thought it would stay at that price so put their prices up. But it hasn't and, as you say, it has dropped below the $100 mark again. Rather than drop the pump prices immediately, the excuse is that they don't know if it will go up again or not so are waiting (and making a nice little profit in the meantime).

Copper headed mallet will be OK if you are gentle, you just need to tap it not belt hell out of it. I even tapped one into place with the end of a wheelbrace in the car park of our hotel at one of the P38 summer camps. The owner of the car was complaining that the warning lights were on and it was all we had to hand at the time, toolboxes having been left at Marty's workshop.

The ECU checks the resistance so if the message comes up as soon as the ignition is turned on, then it is seeing something other than what it expects to see. Then it looks for the same rotation on each wheel as soon as you start to move and if there is a difference, even a very slight one, it brings on the warning lights too. If a new sensor has been fitted it's a toss up between two things. Either the Britpart sensor is a different resistance to the others so it is failing the self test or it hasn't been pushed fully home. If the former, you aren't going to be able to fix it without replacing the sensor, if the latter, tap it with a mallet and make sure it is pushed fully home. One of the humps on the reluctor ring it taller than the others which pushes it out so the air gap is correct.

If it was a petrol car, up to 98 model would be Wabco C, 99 and later would be Wabco D. I would assume the diesel changed at the same time but can't swear to it. Wabco D has 4 wheel traction control if that gives any clues.

and just to add, before anyone suggests that the plastic lever the cable operates is sticking, the latch is a brand new one from Land Rover fitted only a few months ago. I had the very same problem a while ago so was able to tell Nigel what was causing it, only mine was due to a frayed cable.