I've seen a shortened P38 (shortened to make even better at off-roading, I forget the name of the mod 'Hog' or something... I'm sure someone will know) with extremely poor running to the point it wouldn't start on petrol even with a brand new engine because of a fuelling issue. Part of the mods on this particular example was fitting of a smaller petrol tank in the (very much shortened) luggage area. The fuel pump on this petrol tank had been sealed with some sort of silicone, it seemed this silicone had made it's way through the fuel system messing up injectors and the fuel pressure regulator. It was trailered to me, I was tasked with converting it to LPG by the owner but simultaneously tasked by the engine builder (who I know) at proving the engine he built was a good one just that the problem was with the petrol system... There was a dispute between the owner and engine builder because the owner reckoned the builder had made a dud engine, they agreed to let me find the real situation. I fitted the LPG system (mixer type) and the engine fired straight up and ran great on LPG, much to the engine builder's relief! The customer then had the option of starting and running on LPG only or fixing the petrol system, he went with running on LPG only. I could have fixed the petrol system but would probably have involved swapping out most of the bits (pump, pressure regulator and injectors) and flushing all the lines.

I understand... But just to explain where I'm coming from on this. As a young lad I had a few Ford Cortina's, heavy on the front (engine + subframe), very light on the back with a live axle, I liked the model of car and I liked the loose back end handling (fun). In snow it was shit, all that weight at the front but hardly any weight over the driving wheels. If it was fwd instead of rwd I'd have expected far better in the snow but not as much fun, no powesliding etc. I wouldn't expect sticking snow tyres on the back would have made more difference to driving traction than if the car was fwd (weight over driven wheels) instead of rwd... If I was a lightweight fella on a slippery surface trying to push a heavy fella I'd expect more of a difference had the heavy fella been trying to push me than the type of shoes we were both wearing, provided we both wore shoes with a few grooves in them rather than flat bottomed slippery shoes. No argument here I just want to understand lol. BHP as well, my Senator would go up hills the Cortina wouldn't (both rwd) but the Sentator was more powerful and had an autobox, Cortina a manual box. Could sometimes just get traction on a hill in snow in the Senator had like 100mph on the speedo melting ice under the rear wheels as it moved over it. My dad had a Beetle as a kid, in snow he'd chuck a couple of sacks of potatoes in the boot to increase traction.

Thank you both!

Not likely to fit Wranglers on the Elgrand lol, or tyres that wouldn't be rated for 90mph cruising in summer. Best bet to get some all weather tyres then? After I've made sure there's no play in ball joints etc and tracking is good... I let my mates at their local tyre/exhaust place do the tracking, told them the steering wheel was just bit to the right in a straight line but it was towing in, asked if they could do most towing out on drivers side track rod end and about a third on the passenger side. They did the full adjustment on the drivers side and now the steering wheel points to the left in a straight line... If they'd have done as I asked the wheel would be pointing straight when driving straight - a bit annoying.

Anyone else surprised at the video? I did wonder if they'd chosen the model of car for the test because they knew it'd come more down to tyres than 4wd vs 2wd... turning into a conspiracy theorist now! Unlike a BMW which has great nose/tail weight balance my car is nose heavy like most cars are, in 2wd form my model of car is rwd, surely even if the vid etc are correct my model of car is going to have over twice the grip in snow of rwd only same models if both models wear the same tyres? Can't get my head around different models of tyres (that aren't slicks) can more than compensate for 4wd when fitted to a rwd version of same model front heavy car.

Tyres are obviously a compromise between performance in various conditions, comfort, noise, wear and price but the difference in performance in snow shown in the video and confirmed by others here is amazing!

So those stickers on tyres showing ratings for most of those (mentioned) properties - do we reckon the ratings are generally correct/fair or sometimes exaggerated?

My people carrier (Elgrand) is pretty quick for a van but I'll never be pushing it's handling to the limit on dry or wet roads. Since the limit is reached sooner in wet conditions does it make sense that I should fit tyres that excel in the wet (a wet summer road is likely to be more slippy than a wet winter road)?

Outer edges of my front tyres are worn smooth because after I changed front suspension from stupidly low coilovers back to OEM struts I didn't adjust the tracking, they're legal and have plenty tread across most of the width but I'm thinking about changing them anyway. Brakes work great but should stop even sooner in the wet if I put rain or all weather tyres on the front (fronts will make more difference to braking than rears)? And since it's 4wd and front end heavy this should also mean I have better grip on acceleration etc?

I was once in an argument about EVs on Pistonheads forum. One guy on the thread reckoned he was involved with development of EVs in the UK, turned out that his EV works used diesel generators to charge the EVs they were designing/building/testing and bragged about charging his car for free at work.. This guy was called Max, on the the EV thread he also reckoned to have been a member of the development team for Vauxhall factory fitted LPG installs. I reckon this Max was once a customer of mine, I remember fixing a factory fitted LPG system on a Vauxhall for a guy called Max who reckoned to have had a hand in designing Vauxhall factory fit LPG systems (the same factory LPG system as on his car). Got to wonder if he was really the tea boy or at least took a lesser role than he described in both cases, or why couldn't he diagnose and fix stuff he designed (need me to do it for him) lol? I asked him outright a few times if he was once my customer but he always side-stepped the question.. I reckon BS to him having any sort of leading role in development of factory LPG systems or EVs.. I reckon he was there but not in any sort of leading role. On the same thread this guy reckoned to be expert in many fields... chemistry and battery tech (intricacies of lithium ion design), electronics, electricity transmission infrastructure, renewable electricity generation, ice engine fuelling, etc etc. but there seemed to be big holes in his knowledge when questioned. And the irony/hypocrisy of him saying how green EVs were and no problem to charge at home etc while he avoided charging at home and used massive diesel gennies at work, couldn't make it up!

Still can't be arsed with your links Dave, ever care to give us a brief summary of what they contain?

Somebody posted this video on another forum https://youtu.be/atayHQYqA3g

Compares 2wd with winter tyres to 4wd with summer tyres in snow conditions. I would have thought 4wd would still beat 2wd but apparently not?

Gilbertd wrote:

What plonker gave you mod status?

Hehe I know...

Edit - Gilbert a couple of weeks ago you sent me a PM on LPGforum, I replied but dunno if you got my message?

Shit, I accidentally hid this topic, unhidden now, sorry hope no problems!

Gilbertd wrote:
But, as Morat says, if they stopped supplying spare wheels, where would we put the LPG tank?

I like that point! When I come to convert an unfamiliar vehicle for the first time it's always bad to find it has a space saver spare or worse no spare at all. Wish I'd taken pics of the boot on the Infinity hybrid and it's spare wheel well to show you, it does have a shallow interior spare wheel well and carried a space saver but the middle of the spare wheel well is a raised dome, under that dome (exterior side) is the evac purge canister. Dilemma was to fit a small capacity toroidal tank above the spare wheel well dome (space saver sits around the domed bit as it is for the most part hollow toward the centre, toroidal tank is same depth in middle as at edges so would sit higher than the space saver), remove the evac purge canister and disable the evac purge system and cut out the dome to fit a deeper toroidal tank, cut the dome out and fit a deeper toroidal tank but still not as deep as usual due to the narrowing with height design of the boot in that area, leave the dome alone and fit a cylinder tank. Luckily the owner didn't give a shit about boot space and I knew that before he came, I fitted a 103L cylinder tank in the boot which takes most of the boot space, tank does mean there wouldn't be access to the 'well' so the space saver is on the back seat at the moment and owner is very happy with the 92L working capacity due to the tank float bend.

Drove the Infinity M35H hybrid over quite a few miles following LPG conversion. Strange to drive, usually in P or N the engine is running and running under similar load to being in gear (D R etc, say 0.5 bar map), drop it into D and the engine turns off! Keep it in D, left foot brake or leave handbrake off and apply very slight throttle and the engine starts but now is under less load than would expect for idle - the electric motor helps spin the engine and the engine is under similar (anti) load as would be in low rpm over-run conditions about 0.25 bar map! Set off very slowly and the engine turns/stays off, set off a bit sharpish and the engine immediately starts... Get up to about 30mph under low load conditions and the engine tuns off again but only for what seems a very short time/distance before it has to start again to charge the battery. Perhaps the battery on this particular example is on it's way out but it doesn't seem to have great range on battery power alone even at low speed, talking yards rather than miles. Not that I was interested much in battery power, no use to me running on battery when I have to calibrate the LPG system! It drives a bit weirdly when not particularly trying to influence engine load for LPG calibration purposes too, there's a pause in throttle response when the engine has to start, can feel the charge system seem to come in at various times when you can sense the engine working harder than it would be for the conditions if the charge system hadn't cut in a bit like driving with left foot braking. Overall a decent car but I'd be more confident in sporty driving in a normal ice car with same engine no hybrid stuff to affect response etc. Did a lot of the calibration on Thurs night during heavy rain and even flood conditions around this area, had the heater on high, could feel the heater get cooler after the engine had turned off. Mostly concerned about reducer temp though, which never fell below 45C even at latter stages of running on battery power.

My son's BMW 330 doesn't have a spare wheel or location to fit one but will have had run-flats fitted when new. I expect regs allow vehicles not to carry a spare if they have run-flats fitted? I know AA etc can refuse to help people who should be carrying a spare or have run-flats but don't. This doesn't prevent me having normal tyres and not carrying a spare, there are other ways of getting sorted if you have a flat and don't have a spare... I believe the RAC will take people in this situation to a tyre fitting firm... or will put you in touch with an (expensive) mobile tyre fitting firm. Couple of years ago I had a blow out on a single axle caravan, fitted the spare, set off again had another blow out. Called the RAC and because it was the caravan (not covered under my policy) they gave me the number for a mobile tyre fitter. I bought 2 tyres and when I got home sold the caravan and bought a bigger 4 wheeled one that would carry extra weight and manage higher speed without blowouts lol. No fun changing the caravan tyre (first blowout) beside the M42 though, easier to change a car wheel.

I think advertised range for a lot of EVs will be very optimistic. With an ice engine max range will be close to min speed in top gear, which may be a slow speed but won't be an extremely slow speed. With an EV, no gears, max range could be at 1mph with the lights wipers and HEVAC all completely turned off.

Bri did say 'unless the electric for servers comes from renewable sources'. Could also look at this in another way - even stuff that runs on renewable sources of electricity is using renewable electricity that could be used elsewhere instead of elsewhere running off none renewable electricity.

Anything wind powered isn't wind powered when the wind isn't blowing, any battery used to store excess power from wind blowing has to be built (not going to be a green process) and the battery is probably going to be built from rare earth elements, extraction of which isn't going to be a green process. Could be even more extreme - it would be far greener to live in a cave and not have any kids than to build wind turbines or have any sort of tech, nobody wants that... it's all about balancing green with lifestyle then? People will see the balance differently, some would have everyone revert to stoneage tech, most would set a different balance, kids have always been more idealistic than adults but they become adults.

The rare earth elements that go into smartphones end up being blended and going into landfill (according to a program on TV the other night), hardly very green. Kids could consider that as a result of their owning a smartphone rare earth elements (that they might need in future) are ending up in landfill. Which kid isn't going to want a smartphone because of this?

Advantage of self charging hybrids is as Gilbert said.. for slow moving stop/start traffic.

An implication of my main point in last post is kids would still be likely to want smartphones even if there was more of a fuss about them damaging the environment (like there is about cars damaging the environment). Easy to moan about something if they're not allowed to have that something yet like if they're not old enough yet. But when old enough they're gonna want the same thing they've been moaning about themselves.. like a car that doesn't need charging every 50 miles or cost too much money. If legal age to own a smartphone was higher we might hear of kids moaning about how un-green smartphones are... until they were old enough to own one. Same with cars but I don't think I've met a kid who said they wouldn't own a car unless it was a pure EV, I don't meet many of this supposed majority of kids who are up in arms about environmental issues, I just see the minority of most idealistic ones in the media, the majority of which I expect will be driving (probably ice) cars soon.

No time to watch videos, during a fag break I might push it to a brief look at Wikipedia ;-)

I believe hybrids get emission zone breaks, in fact didn't Gilbert mention something about this earlier in thread?

Thought in the early days of motoring EVs were being developed at same time as ice cars ?

My mate's mum and dad leased a Betamax, they were out at the pub every night and had an interesting collection of videos we'd sometimes watch while they were out lol.

Kids prefer Netflix/Youtube etc to DVDs but I doubt it's because of wanting a smaller carbon footprint... far more to do with convenience of having such a wide range of content instantly available and being able to use the same tech for comms with friends. If things/tech were different so smart phones were killing the planet but DVDs were environmentally friendly I expect they'd still not want to give up smart phones to use DVDs and landlines... i.e in that situation as far as kids were concerned I reckon convenience would count for more than carbon footprint. Would think a single DVD/Blueray disk has a lower carbon footprint than a smartphone, but wouldn't expect kids to see much cool about being limited to a range of content of 1 disk. Doesn't take a big stretch of imagination to see analogies on range/convenience between smartphones versus DVDs and ice cars versus EVs. And most kids who are nearly old enough to drive are far more likely to have an ice car as first car than an EV anyway, even if they are otherwise eco warriors.

davew wrote:

A quick aside, how many hybrid-owners are converting to LPG ?

Another quick aside but this makes good watching/reading
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

I haven't converted many hybrids, can think of a few reasons why. But there's increasing interest from particularly taxi drivers and again can see why (emissions zones etc).

Would say ultimately it was consumers who killed off electric cars first time around due to ice cars having better range. Even if fledgling battery/electric companies developed infrastructure (forecourts etc) at the same rate as oil companies would expect things to have gone the same way. When comparing winners and losers of old tech a common analogy is VHS vs Betamax but at least they both had adequate play time, would expect if there was a 3rd competitor format which only had 20 minutes max possible play time it would have lost before Betamax even if tapes/media was much cheaper.

A lot of young people are concerned about climate change but that isn't necessarily enough to steer them to preach EVs or buy one themselves. From learning to drive and through college / uni my son ran typical student type cars, old Corsa, Astra, etc and he's had that type of car until recently. Now three years into a well paid job after uni he decided it was time for something a bit newer and better, he acknowledges climate change but didn't consider an EV, he likes the type of cars I used to drive and an EV would be less convenient. First he looked at V8 BMW 7 series but settled for a BMW330... Would expect a lot of young kids will aspire to drive cars much like their parents / brothers / older friends cars (which were not EVs) especially if they're used to longer road trips which they know an EV couldn't manage due to short range. An EV wouldn't have suited me at 19 years old, I thought nothing of jumping in the car and nipping to Cornwall for the weekend, me and the girlfriend at the time did that regularly... but back then could make the 350 mile trip in 3 hours 15 minutes driving at night stopping once for 10 minutes to refuel and marvel at how nice and grey the inside of my exhaust looked lol. Son still has the Astra so between him and his girlfriend they have 3 petrol cars (she recently swapped her diesel for a petrol), he uses the Astra to park at the train station or if he drives to work in Leeds he takes the BMW. Both acknowledge climate change, both would probably rather more people use EVs if it helps climate change, just as long as more people doesn't include themselves. Would expect a lot of sub 17 year olds who preach climate change and EVs suddenly to have a change of heart regard EVs when they reach driving age! Even if a kid would prefer an EV over an ice car they may only be able to afford an older ice... so a quandary have no car or have an ice car. If they can afford an EV they might not be able to charge it at home when they want/need to if they've already persuaded mum and dad to buy an EV and dad's car takes the best part of all night to charge whilst drawing a high fraction of the household's electrical supply capacity (or is merely parked in the way so kid's car couldn't charge at the same time). Having run an ice car with practically unlimited range (except for pesky 5/10 minute fuel ups) a kid now more grown up is in the same situation as other adults - swapping to an EV more expense and less convenient than they had to start with, especially if they like/need longer trips.

Just finishing LPG conversion of an Infinity (to Nissan what Lexus is to Toyota) M350 hybrid.

First spotted with binoculars when fishing off the boat but didn't look for long since dad and grandad were with me, we had a laugh about it though. Dad let me use the Landrover, I knew it wasn't far down the beach, at maybe 14 had to have a ride down the beach to check it out eh! Got as far as some old bloke walking bolx naked by himself who gave me a funny look and turned it around. No fit birds bah lol.

Is that 30ppm with permit-able limit being 1200ppm, as in good? Unless it's running lean (it won't be) lol ;-)

Yes I don't think I'd try towing the narrowboat and definitely wouldn't try launching/recovering it on a beach or taking it down that cliff path.. struggled enough with far smaller boats! But I think it's illegal to take vehicles on UK beaches anyway now with exception of councils may allow parking on designated areas of certain beaches. Used to be able to drive the Landrover onto the other (Southern none boat launching designated) beach at Shell Island in Wales and could maybe have got all the way to Barmouth on the beach... but only ever got as far South as the nudist beach before Barmouth lol.

TT surfing... towpath and tunnel lol.

Used to do water skiing as a kid, more often drove the boat while dad skied. Once skied from Abersoch to Shell Island (around 12 miles) about a month before having a hip joint replacement, knew it was gonna ache, could hardly walk but still insisted on immediately flushing the engine and polishing the boat. If the tide was gonna be out when we wanted to come in we'd just drive the boat (on plane) onto the beach with the drive on release, had to time that well so you didn't drop off a wave nose first onto the beach... Then you'd kill the engine and skid about 30 yards onto the beach, climb out, fetch the Landrover down the cliff path/cutting with brakeback trailer and recover the boat.

Looks great Miles, I didn't know what sort of boat it was (canal boat etc).

Interested to hear about your boat sometime Miles ;-)

You should be able to get good results on LPG with the parts you've got as long as they're not worn out or broken. I can't remember reading what reducer you have fitted and don't know if the OMVL Dream injectors are oldskool metal bodied or later 'Superlights' but OMVL's are well suited to P38s and Superlights are very reliable. Could swap the ECU but little point if it works OK, just tidy the wiring up.

Like others have said, if you can't get good results on petrol you're unlikely to get good results on LPG. Sort the petrol running first, then see how it goes on LPG. If it was running right on petrol I'd sort any problems with the LPG in no time and would expect to be able to re-use most or all of the bits.

Edit - Just read Profess... So your ECU will be Stag, which should be capable of giving good results on a P38, not worth swapping it, even if it's broken would just plug another Stag ECU in. Also expect injectors will be OMVL SL (since Profess haven't been around long enough to have fitted metal OMVLs). But do the SL's have nozzles fitted (are brass bits visible on injector outlets if you pull the pipe off?) What reducer (would expect Stag again!) ?