Somebody posted this video on another forum https://youtu.be/atayHQYqA3g

Compares 2wd with winter tyres to 4wd with summer tyres in snow conditions. I would have thought 4wd would still beat 2wd but apparently not?

Gilbertd wrote:

What plonker gave you mod status?

Hehe I know...

Edit - Gilbert a couple of weeks ago you sent me a PM on LPGforum, I replied but dunno if you got my message?

Shit, I accidentally hid this topic, unhidden now, sorry hope no problems!

Gilbertd wrote:
But, as Morat says, if they stopped supplying spare wheels, where would we put the LPG tank?

I like that point! When I come to convert an unfamiliar vehicle for the first time it's always bad to find it has a space saver spare or worse no spare at all. Wish I'd taken pics of the boot on the Infinity hybrid and it's spare wheel well to show you, it does have a shallow interior spare wheel well and carried a space saver but the middle of the spare wheel well is a raised dome, under that dome (exterior side) is the evac purge canister. Dilemma was to fit a small capacity toroidal tank above the spare wheel well dome (space saver sits around the domed bit as it is for the most part hollow toward the centre, toroidal tank is same depth in middle as at edges so would sit higher than the space saver), remove the evac purge canister and disable the evac purge system and cut out the dome to fit a deeper toroidal tank, cut the dome out and fit a deeper toroidal tank but still not as deep as usual due to the narrowing with height design of the boot in that area, leave the dome alone and fit a cylinder tank. Luckily the owner didn't give a shit about boot space and I knew that before he came, I fitted a 103L cylinder tank in the boot which takes most of the boot space, tank does mean there wouldn't be access to the 'well' so the space saver is on the back seat at the moment and owner is very happy with the 92L working capacity due to the tank float bend.

Drove the Infinity M35H hybrid over quite a few miles following LPG conversion. Strange to drive, usually in P or N the engine is running and running under similar load to being in gear (D R etc, say 0.5 bar map), drop it into D and the engine turns off! Keep it in D, left foot brake or leave handbrake off and apply very slight throttle and the engine starts but now is under less load than would expect for idle - the electric motor helps spin the engine and the engine is under similar (anti) load as would be in low rpm over-run conditions about 0.25 bar map! Set off very slowly and the engine turns/stays off, set off a bit sharpish and the engine immediately starts... Get up to about 30mph under low load conditions and the engine tuns off again but only for what seems a very short time/distance before it has to start again to charge the battery. Perhaps the battery on this particular example is on it's way out but it doesn't seem to have great range on battery power alone even at low speed, talking yards rather than miles. Not that I was interested much in battery power, no use to me running on battery when I have to calibrate the LPG system! It drives a bit weirdly when not particularly trying to influence engine load for LPG calibration purposes too, there's a pause in throttle response when the engine has to start, can feel the charge system seem to come in at various times when you can sense the engine working harder than it would be for the conditions if the charge system hadn't cut in a bit like driving with left foot braking. Overall a decent car but I'd be more confident in sporty driving in a normal ice car with same engine no hybrid stuff to affect response etc. Did a lot of the calibration on Thurs night during heavy rain and even flood conditions around this area, had the heater on high, could feel the heater get cooler after the engine had turned off. Mostly concerned about reducer temp though, which never fell below 45C even at latter stages of running on battery power.

My son's BMW 330 doesn't have a spare wheel or location to fit one but will have had run-flats fitted when new. I expect regs allow vehicles not to carry a spare if they have run-flats fitted? I know AA etc can refuse to help people who should be carrying a spare or have run-flats but don't. This doesn't prevent me having normal tyres and not carrying a spare, there are other ways of getting sorted if you have a flat and don't have a spare... I believe the RAC will take people in this situation to a tyre fitting firm... or will put you in touch with an (expensive) mobile tyre fitting firm. Couple of years ago I had a blow out on a single axle caravan, fitted the spare, set off again had another blow out. Called the RAC and because it was the caravan (not covered under my policy) they gave me the number for a mobile tyre fitter. I bought 2 tyres and when I got home sold the caravan and bought a bigger 4 wheeled one that would carry extra weight and manage higher speed without blowouts lol. No fun changing the caravan tyre (first blowout) beside the M42 though, easier to change a car wheel.

I think advertised range for a lot of EVs will be very optimistic. With an ice engine max range will be close to min speed in top gear, which may be a slow speed but won't be an extremely slow speed. With an EV, no gears, max range could be at 1mph with the lights wipers and HEVAC all completely turned off.

Bri did say 'unless the electric for servers comes from renewable sources'. Could also look at this in another way - even stuff that runs on renewable sources of electricity is using renewable electricity that could be used elsewhere instead of elsewhere running off none renewable electricity.

Anything wind powered isn't wind powered when the wind isn't blowing, any battery used to store excess power from wind blowing has to be built (not going to be a green process) and the battery is probably going to be built from rare earth elements, extraction of which isn't going to be a green process. Could be even more extreme - it would be far greener to live in a cave and not have any kids than to build wind turbines or have any sort of tech, nobody wants that... it's all about balancing green with lifestyle then? People will see the balance differently, some would have everyone revert to stoneage tech, most would set a different balance, kids have always been more idealistic than adults but they become adults.

The rare earth elements that go into smartphones end up being blended and going into landfill (according to a program on TV the other night), hardly very green. Kids could consider that as a result of their owning a smartphone rare earth elements (that they might need in future) are ending up in landfill. Which kid isn't going to want a smartphone because of this?

Advantage of self charging hybrids is as Gilbert said.. for slow moving stop/start traffic.

An implication of my main point in last post is kids would still be likely to want smartphones even if there was more of a fuss about them damaging the environment (like there is about cars damaging the environment). Easy to moan about something if they're not allowed to have that something yet like if they're not old enough yet. But when old enough they're gonna want the same thing they've been moaning about themselves.. like a car that doesn't need charging every 50 miles or cost too much money. If legal age to own a smartphone was higher we might hear of kids moaning about how un-green smartphones are... until they were old enough to own one. Same with cars but I don't think I've met a kid who said they wouldn't own a car unless it was a pure EV, I don't meet many of this supposed majority of kids who are up in arms about environmental issues, I just see the minority of most idealistic ones in the media, the majority of which I expect will be driving (probably ice) cars soon.

No time to watch videos, during a fag break I might push it to a brief look at Wikipedia ;-)

I believe hybrids get emission zone breaks, in fact didn't Gilbert mention something about this earlier in thread?

Thought in the early days of motoring EVs were being developed at same time as ice cars ?

My mate's mum and dad leased a Betamax, they were out at the pub every night and had an interesting collection of videos we'd sometimes watch while they were out lol.

Kids prefer Netflix/Youtube etc to DVDs but I doubt it's because of wanting a smaller carbon footprint... far more to do with convenience of having such a wide range of content instantly available and being able to use the same tech for comms with friends. If things/tech were different so smart phones were killing the planet but DVDs were environmentally friendly I expect they'd still not want to give up smart phones to use DVDs and landlines... i.e in that situation as far as kids were concerned I reckon convenience would count for more than carbon footprint. Would think a single DVD/Blueray disk has a lower carbon footprint than a smartphone, but wouldn't expect kids to see much cool about being limited to a range of content of 1 disk. Doesn't take a big stretch of imagination to see analogies on range/convenience between smartphones versus DVDs and ice cars versus EVs. And most kids who are nearly old enough to drive are far more likely to have an ice car as first car than an EV anyway, even if they are otherwise eco warriors.

davew wrote:

A quick aside, how many hybrid-owners are converting to LPG ?

Another quick aside but this makes good watching/reading
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

I haven't converted many hybrids, can think of a few reasons why. But there's increasing interest from particularly taxi drivers and again can see why (emissions zones etc).

Would say ultimately it was consumers who killed off electric cars first time around due to ice cars having better range. Even if fledgling battery/electric companies developed infrastructure (forecourts etc) at the same rate as oil companies would expect things to have gone the same way. When comparing winners and losers of old tech a common analogy is VHS vs Betamax but at least they both had adequate play time, would expect if there was a 3rd competitor format which only had 20 minutes max possible play time it would have lost before Betamax even if tapes/media was much cheaper.

A lot of young people are concerned about climate change but that isn't necessarily enough to steer them to preach EVs or buy one themselves. From learning to drive and through college / uni my son ran typical student type cars, old Corsa, Astra, etc and he's had that type of car until recently. Now three years into a well paid job after uni he decided it was time for something a bit newer and better, he acknowledges climate change but didn't consider an EV, he likes the type of cars I used to drive and an EV would be less convenient. First he looked at V8 BMW 7 series but settled for a BMW330... Would expect a lot of young kids will aspire to drive cars much like their parents / brothers / older friends cars (which were not EVs) especially if they're used to longer road trips which they know an EV couldn't manage due to short range. An EV wouldn't have suited me at 19 years old, I thought nothing of jumping in the car and nipping to Cornwall for the weekend, me and the girlfriend at the time did that regularly... but back then could make the 350 mile trip in 3 hours 15 minutes driving at night stopping once for 10 minutes to refuel and marvel at how nice and grey the inside of my exhaust looked lol. Son still has the Astra so between him and his girlfriend they have 3 petrol cars (she recently swapped her diesel for a petrol), he uses the Astra to park at the train station or if he drives to work in Leeds he takes the BMW. Both acknowledge climate change, both would probably rather more people use EVs if it helps climate change, just as long as more people doesn't include themselves. Would expect a lot of sub 17 year olds who preach climate change and EVs suddenly to have a change of heart regard EVs when they reach driving age! Even if a kid would prefer an EV over an ice car they may only be able to afford an older ice... so a quandary have no car or have an ice car. If they can afford an EV they might not be able to charge it at home when they want/need to if they've already persuaded mum and dad to buy an EV and dad's car takes the best part of all night to charge whilst drawing a high fraction of the household's electrical supply capacity (or is merely parked in the way so kid's car couldn't charge at the same time). Having run an ice car with practically unlimited range (except for pesky 5/10 minute fuel ups) a kid now more grown up is in the same situation as other adults - swapping to an EV more expense and less convenient than they had to start with, especially if they like/need longer trips.

Just finishing LPG conversion of an Infinity (to Nissan what Lexus is to Toyota) M350 hybrid.

First spotted with binoculars when fishing off the boat but didn't look for long since dad and grandad were with me, we had a laugh about it though. Dad let me use the Landrover, I knew it wasn't far down the beach, at maybe 14 had to have a ride down the beach to check it out eh! Got as far as some old bloke walking bolx naked by himself who gave me a funny look and turned it around. No fit birds bah lol.

Is that 30ppm with permit-able limit being 1200ppm, as in good? Unless it's running lean (it won't be) lol ;-)

Yes I don't think I'd try towing the narrowboat and definitely wouldn't try launching/recovering it on a beach or taking it down that cliff path.. struggled enough with far smaller boats! But I think it's illegal to take vehicles on UK beaches anyway now with exception of councils may allow parking on designated areas of certain beaches. Used to be able to drive the Landrover onto the other (Southern none boat launching designated) beach at Shell Island in Wales and could maybe have got all the way to Barmouth on the beach... but only ever got as far South as the nudist beach before Barmouth lol.

TT surfing... towpath and tunnel lol.

Used to do water skiing as a kid, more often drove the boat while dad skied. Once skied from Abersoch to Shell Island (around 12 miles) about a month before having a hip joint replacement, knew it was gonna ache, could hardly walk but still insisted on immediately flushing the engine and polishing the boat. If the tide was gonna be out when we wanted to come in we'd just drive the boat (on plane) onto the beach with the drive on release, had to time that well so you didn't drop off a wave nose first onto the beach... Then you'd kill the engine and skid about 30 yards onto the beach, climb out, fetch the Landrover down the cliff path/cutting with brakeback trailer and recover the boat.

Looks great Miles, I didn't know what sort of boat it was (canal boat etc).

Interested to hear about your boat sometime Miles ;-)

You should be able to get good results on LPG with the parts you've got as long as they're not worn out or broken. I can't remember reading what reducer you have fitted and don't know if the OMVL Dream injectors are oldskool metal bodied or later 'Superlights' but OMVL's are well suited to P38s and Superlights are very reliable. Could swap the ECU but little point if it works OK, just tidy the wiring up.

Like others have said, if you can't get good results on petrol you're unlikely to get good results on LPG. Sort the petrol running first, then see how it goes on LPG. If it was running right on petrol I'd sort any problems with the LPG in no time and would expect to be able to re-use most or all of the bits.

Edit - Just read Profess... So your ECU will be Stag, which should be capable of giving good results on a P38, not worth swapping it, even if it's broken would just plug another Stag ECU in. Also expect injectors will be OMVL SL (since Profess haven't been around long enough to have fitted metal OMVLs). But do the SL's have nozzles fitted (are brass bits visible on injector outlets if you pull the pipe off?) What reducer (would expect Stag again!) ?

Profess try to get owners to buy an interface cable for the LPG software from them, they're told that the LPG system can be serviced remotely using a special facility of Stag software which allows Profess to diagnose and calibrate the system remotely. The 'special' facility is just Windows remote desktop access which any installer could use to diagnose/calibrate any LPG system remotely... But a better idea is to fit the system so it won't break and calibrate it properly so it will run properly without needing 'tweeks', not by a visit to the installer and not by using remote desktop access.

Profess may have set the service interval facility in Stag settings to disable the LPG system (won't switch to gas) if you haven't had it 'remotely serviced' by them within a set number of hours of the engine running. If they didn't set the service interval thing there must be a problem, perhaps just a solenoid / sensor / etc. The fix shouldn't take much doing regardless, but like Gilbert says Profess aren't noted for great installs.

I'd give Gilbert's posts above on this thread a like if this forum featured a like button, agreed.

What's wrong with your LPG system Strangerover? One I fitted?

Back in the days when LPG parts were much more expensive, if someone wanted a P38 converting installers would usually quote for both a single point system and at higher price a sequential system.

The advantages of the single point system were less expense for parts and less expense for fitting, engine can start from cold on LPG. Advantages of a sequential system are switching fuels automatically, supposedly a bit more power and fuel economy, no chance of a backfire.

The number of parts to convert any engine using a single point is similar regardless of number of engine cylinders (ok might need an extra emulator with more cylinders costing maybe £30 back then). Used to be that single point systems cost less than parts to convert a 4 cylinder engine using a sequential system, while parts to convert a V8 using a sequential system used to cost about £500 more than parts to convert a 4 cyl using a sequential system.

Would think whether or not fuel economy/range is correct depends on the type of driving you do and how mpg on LPG compares to mpg on petrol.

Got my mind on other things at the moment so will come back to this later, thanks for the replies again Richard and Bri,
Haven't had a lunch break in a long time... plenty 5 / 10 mins out for a fag break and catch up with admin / forums / emails etc though!

Thanks very much Gilbert.

Everyone who has checked (reg number into the ULEZ checker) has found that their imported car isn't exempt.

There was a third tack I didn't mention... Getting the emissions figures section filled in on the V5 should be all the proof TFL need. It's not a tack people want to use because if successful it will also be all the proof DVSA need to charge higher road fund licence and they'd do that by default. It could still work out cheaper overall for people who go inside the ULEZ often but how do we get emissions figures on V5s changed? Would expect DVSA to ask for the same unobtainable signed letter that TFL ask for.

It would be great if LPG cars were exempt from Lonodn ULEZ charges. Leeds is doing something like that for taxi drivers but with the proviso the car is a late model late Euro emissions version... so the proviso points mostly to an LPG converted direct injection car, which as we know presents the problem of LPG converting a direct injection car. It has occurred to me that for taxi drivers it could be worth an LPG conversion even if the LPG conversion doesn't work properly!