If this is a pub we're glad some people are not only in the pub but sat at our table, wouldn't want some people sat at our table and wouldn't want some people even in the pub. Don't be the weirdo in the pub who usually has nothing to say but occasionally joins a table, puts everyone's backs up, demands they read pages of boring stuff on a subject that they're not really interested in and was only mentioned as an aside, the table aren't really interested in the aside in detail. It seems weird to be obsessed with proving points about an aside subject and even more weird to be hypocritical about something obsessed about. Just in case there's any confusion, most here are welcome at the table but Davew is acting like the 'every pubs got one' weirdo in the pub. Free to talk about Greta as main subject on a different table if anyone joins him at another table and if he isn't barred from the pub by the time he realises how much he's pissing everyone off.
Post #32
davew wrote:
So will just sticking a "Hybrid" badge on my P38 cover me for it then ?
I'd really rather talk about zero carbon emissions from the UK by 2030 and the impact that might have on us regards the cars we currently enjoy driving.
I don't want this to turn into another debate on the rights or wrongs of emissions, I'm looking for answers in trying to avoid charges and don't care if anyone thinks it is right or wrong to avoid charges ;-)
As some here know I go on a forum for imported (from Japan) Nissan Elgrands. There's been some talk on there about original Nissan emission figures for petrol Elgrands (from 2002 onward) stating low enough figures that they should in theory be able to avoid having to pay the London ULEZ charges (?). Being imports there is no 'Euro4' etc rating for these cars and the emissions data sections on the V5 are usually blank... which is a good thing in one way in that owners don't have to pay the higher road fund duty but might be a a bad thing in another way if this is the issue that means having to pay ULEZ charges.
Several people have tried to get an exemption from ULEZ charges by sending 'evidence' of low emissions to TFL Transport For London but TFL ask for a signed letter from the vehicle manufacturer (technical department was mentioned) to support the emissions figures, the signed letter has to include the UK registration number and VIN number. Nissan don't know the reg number of the exported Elgrand and refuse to send such letters anyway. People have tried sending copies of Nissan documentation and letters from dealers but TFL refuse to accept anything but the signed letter from the manufacturer's technical dept.
Some people are trying a different tack, they have got a vignette for Paris and similar for Berlin and intend on asking TFL if these will suffice as evidence of low enough emissions. I note that nobody has tried this for an LPG converted Elgrand and IIRC their Paris vignette is a higher figure than Gilbert's vignette for Paris for his P38.
Anyone know (particularly Gilbert) if the Vignette tack is likely to work? Or any other way around it?
Side subject of the Paris / Berlin Vignette... Will not having a Euro rating or emissions figures on the V5 (boiling down to them being imports) effect the grading or application for such vignette if the Elgrand is LPG converted?
I nearly quoted one of Gilbert's posts on the subject of Vignettes but I don't know if it would be needed as a reference in any reply.
I might have a Chinese tonight lol.
On topic is ;'zero carbon emissions from the uk by 2030 :-('. Which would have to involve getting rid of all our ice cars by then...
And Romanrob's got a fuelling problem...
Pmsl Dave! The only bit that surprised me there was that your comments struck a chord with the kids...
Just for fun.. They may be pretending to watch you fix cars but really hanging around your gate to make use of your internet lol.
Morat wrote:
I have a boat!
It's diesel powered... but hey :)
Run it on red diesel ;-)
Bet yours works, mine with it's old 2 stroke engine still doesn't :-( But I prefer an engine to an electric motor and battery and want to be able to tell people I've done my bit for polar bears, so I'll repair the engine instead of fitting an electric motor. Or buy a bigger boat ;-)
Mostly agreed wahey!
Mind you, if you walked to school and kids asked you what sort of car you run it wouldn't make much difference that you chose to walk that day ;-)
Politicians can't do much if they're not in power and they won't get in power or stay in power if they do things people don't want them to do.
Winston Churchill said "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat" and people agreed.
The Green Party could say "The day after we get in power we will legislate to make running ice cars illegal" and not many would agree.
People see one of the above situations as worth it regardless of cost and effect on quality of life, they see the other situation as pissing into the wind if the rest of the world isn't going to do the same... And for the most part they are correct on both points. Can't really blame a politician for not having a policy that even you apparently don't support and you apparently don't support it because you could have got rid of your ice car already. You must realise it would be hypocritical to e.g. write a letter to your local politician saying you want him to push for banning ice cars while you still run an ice car?
If you turned up at school handing books out in a P38 you could attempt to justify it by telling kids you've recycled it and it costs more in terms of energy/emissions to build a new electric car but they could ask why you didn't turn up on your bike or on the bus. If you won that argument they might all aspire to buy old ice cars when they're old enough lol. So in 2030 like in 2019 grown up kids don't vote for a politician who wants to scrap ice cars, by this point our emissions as a country are even more negligible in total world emissions than they were in 2019 (rising emissions from e.g. India) so it'd be even more like pissing into the wind. Are you partly at fault for grown up kids attitudes because you turned up at their school in a P38? True that it's worse to build a new car than keep an old one running and I don't want to be without a car or have a car that won't tow my boat 350 miles without having to wait an age for recharging... so I think I'll run my old ice cars as long as possible and apparently with your blessing. Greta wouldn't agree so if she does become a politician she won't get my vote.
Did you swap from BT to another ISP Davew / still with BT and still providing free internet for passers-by / still with BT but found some way of turning off internet for passers-by?
Did you get BT to make changes to their hotspot system? If so did it involve taking legal action?
You've been asked whether you still run a P38 a few times by me and again by Morat but you've avoided answering on every occasion. Are our mics on Dave? lol.
The question is entirely on topic, you've moaned about politicians who give the impression they're going to take certain actions but then don't, one reason for asking you this question is to see how serious you (as a seemingly stout supporter of Greta) are about following up on Gretas advice. If even her supporters aren't going to act on her advice it doesn't seem she has much chance of achieving her goals. Is Greta's mic on for you Dave?
Presumably you don't want to answer because that would show even you don't agree with Greta's message of urgency, or maybe you agree with Greta but don't want the change of life that conforming with her ideals would involve (all hot wind, can't be arsed yourself).
We all know that she cares about the environment Dave but that isn't the main point here. She isn't a prodigy, the environment may be the only thing she cares about due to her Aspergers. Even people who broadly agree with her don't have the extreme views that she does, including Harv and likely including you although you still haven't answered with whether you still run your V8 yet?
She has brought nothing new to the table, just repeated the same messages but if you feel the same as her you should buy all her books and distribute them to schools. Money won't buy you anything if the world is underwater so you have nothing to lose.
davew wrote:
No need to speculate (negatively/inaccurately) about Greta Lpgc, Just Google her !
And you do know she has Asbergers, right ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg
And I read this book yesterday: A collection of her speeches:
"Is my microphone on, can you hear me" ?....... indeed
https://www.amazon.co.uk/One-Too-Small-Make-Difference/dp/0141991747
Yes a kid but a Smart Kid ; Watch Out !
And, finally, I would much rather listen to her than our so-called 'leaders' who (far too often) sound like spoilt/stupid kids....
I commented negatively but what did I say that was inaccurate?
It isn't politically correct to say this but seems to me having Aspergers is the reason she got her way with wagging school in the first place and likely in part why she got to address the UN. If a Youtuber who didn't have Aspergers but already had a million followers decided to take the same stance, do we think they'd get an audience with the UN even if they picked up extra followers?
If our own kids decided to demonstrate every Friday instead of going to school would/should we allow it? Or told us we had to become vegan, or we shouldn't buy anything that contains plastic (like nylon) or animal products (like silk / wool / leather) so should probably instead wear clothes made from straw?
Is my microphone on... As an ex DJ I wish I had a quid for every time I've heard that!
Could she be more extreme - Well, if we believe that the end is nigh due to emissions we should not only stop creating emissions ourselves but also do as much as we can to offset others (who don't believe) emissions. So even if we do create clean electricity we shouldn't use it ourselves but should instead give it away to the unclean others so they don't generate electricity in a way that is bad for the environment; Every kwh of clean electricity we produce and use could potentially be 1kwh not used and 1kwh or replacing unclean electricity with clean electricity if we are prepared to take the hit on quality of life. Which would she prefer and why?
Someone who reads her speeches, agrees with her and supports her cause will be scrapping their car, go vegan and not fly again at the very least?
I agree with Gilbert but wonder if that remains true if attempting to start with a closed throttle? Perhaps normally during cranking with a closed throttle the IAV opens a bit?
But more likely I would expect it's still fuel trims affecting starting as per my earlier thread with OL1 and OL2,
The only other things that come immediately to mind are ECT reading lower coolant temp than actual so the engine gets cold start enrichment when detrimental rather than beneficial, ignition system that starts breaking down when warm, poor compression. Compression leakage has more effect at low rpm (so especially when cranking) that at high rpm... but would have to be over several cylinders to make much difference to a V8.
Did poor starting start after just changing lambda probes?
Perhaps a steam engine with a very large battery and electric heating elements lol.
Visited the National Railway Museum in York last Sunday with my 4 year old... again.
I remember being at school in Yorkshire during the miner's strike and a few teachers strikes happened around the same time. Following a teachers strike some students decided it would be a good idea to go on strike themselves, just for the crack of it and to gauge teachers reactions... If teachers had been on strike what would/could they say about students being on strike etc, students might get away with wagging school and not get detention on their return, it was an ideal time for students to push their luck. Nobody expected it to spread to other schools and it didn't, but if it happened today with the internet etc it might well have spread, someone would have assigned a reason for the strike action and same person might have gone on to give speeches and demonstrations if it all snowballed.
I don't admire her, I think sh'es a kid and typically idealistic, she used the internet to organise 'action' but probably spent more time on the net chatting unnecessarily to friends and watching Youtube vids creating emissions herself. She might not have been born or might have been living in a cave if it wasn't for progress made by ancestors producing emissions. Change is happening without her, in a few years she might be more interested in boys and nob prizes of a different kind. She might drop the demo's etc, young idealism tends to wear thinner as wider understanding and realism sets in, more likely to continue if she enjoys being a celebrity.
Everyone here impressed with what she's doing will be getting rid of their P38 soon then?
Gilbertd wrote:
That's what I find pathetic about the whole thing. Forced to buy energy saving LED lightbulbs (that won't work with existing standard dimmer switches), encouraged to get a smart meter so you can see where you are wasting electricity to cut consumption and reduce your bills, then be pushed towards buying an electric car to bump them back up again. The public don't always think about it, they just think they don't have to fill the tank with fuel, they just plug it in so they must be saving money but how many of them would leave a 3kW electric heater on all night every night?
Building on what you've said... We're also to be moved away from gas heating to electric heating, granted using heat pumps not traditional electric heaters but still... Filament bulbs were not as energy efficient as LEDs in terms of light output but the energy 'wasted' was the equivalent of a small electric heater. It is colder when it is dark so people were always more likely to turn on electric lights when it was cold.. There isn't as much energy to be saved by fitting LED bulbs etc as might at first seem because any heat not produced by filament bulbs will instead have to be produced by heat pumps or (for now) by gas boilers.
There are people who think leaving a couple of phone chargers plugged into the mains (even not charging a phone) and a TV on standby uses as much electric as an electric heater / worry that using nested 3 way adaptors to plug phone chargers in would cause an overload and start a fire but will happily leave a 7kw car charger running all night with charging cable neatly coiled on a garage floor while fans attempt to keep the lithium battery cool.
Besides all the infrastructure and generation issues EVs need much better batteries. Quoted range might be (say) 100 miles on a 30kwh battery but the 30kwh is 100% of the battery rating while small print says battery life will suffer if the battery is charged above 80% and/or run to below 40%... so for example quoted range of 100 miles the manufacturer should advise 'regular use' range should only be 80%-40%=40% of 100 miles which is only 40 miles.
A funny thought just occurred to me... Imagine a future where son says to dad "Can I have £1 to go to the shop and buy some sweets please?' Dad says 'Yes if you earn it, you can earn it by spending a few hours on the exercise bike which is plugged into the grid, spend 4 hours peddling really fast and when the smart-meter says you've produced £1's worth of electricity I'll give you the quid for the shop'. Dad thinks result, that'll stop him getting fat, teach him the value of money, pocket money cost me nothing and I've done my bit for the environment today! Later that evening son turns TV on and sees how large parts of the world is generating gigawatts of electric using coal power stations, in fact there are more coal power stations now than there were in 1980. Later in his life son gets a job building sea defences on the UK coast, his car was built in China, tools he uses in his job were built in China and China supplies a big chunk of our electricity... Nuclear fusion still hasn't been invented, there are undersea cables and we have Chinese built nuclear power stations.
davew wrote:
In the meantime it looks like Greta Thunberg is heading for a Nobel Prize (?)_
At 16 and from Sweden she's definitely headed for a nob prize, after that she might calm down a bit...
What's wrong with idle now then? O2 sensors shouldn't need any running in.
Is it idling OK now? Closed loop at idle on bank2?
Probably more than just coincidence that the bad starting and poor idling started just after you'd changed lambda probes and I've seen same/similar happen before. When I've seen it happen a few possible explanations have occurred to me. One theory goes that behind the scenes there are two types of open loop mode which I'll call OL1 and OL2. OL1 uses only the ECU base map no fuel trim adjustments applied at all (but still adds cold start enrichment and high load enrichment), OL2 works the same as OL1 but also applies the long term fuel trim. In a no fault situation OL2 is used and gives best results (drive-ability and emissions) - the fuel trims have been learned to provide correct mixture when the engine was warm and in theory when emissions equipment was working properly, the lambda's don't work properly until they're warm enough and are also incapable of measuring the rich mixture necessary during early stages of engine warm up... But still if we want to run as close to correct mixture as possible we should apply the long term fuel trim, or if we want to run a 10% rich mixture we should apply the long term trim + 10%. Or put in another way, if the engine has been running correct mixture which happens to be when LTFT is at +10% and then we cut the wires to a lambda probe while the engine was running we'd expect mixture to remain correct if LTFT remained at +10% or to run lean if the ECU suddenly stopped applying fuel trims because it had detected the fault. Just before you swapped the lambda probes the ECU might have been running in OL1 mode because it had detected a problem with important emissions equipment (e.g. lambda heater circuit) and OL1 mode could give decent results, but before switching to OL1 mode when probes first went bad fuel trims could have been learned incorrectly. By fitting the new probes the ECU sees the heater circuit fault has gone away and switches back to closed loop mode but applying the incorrect fuel trims. There may be an element of when the ECU has first switched back to closed loop mode after running OL1 the long term trim that applies to idle is re-based to be same as an off-idle fuel trim. Off idle fuelling/trims are less fussy than idle fuelling/trims, the volumes being measured (air) and metered (fuel) are far greater and easier to measure/meter within a percentage tolerance range, also the volume of exhaust gas flowing past the lambda sensor is greater so the lambda voltage more quickly responds to exhaust oxygen content (mixture) which is the main reason ECUs respond to lambda quicker with increasing engine load (faster lambda voltage flick). Open Loop and Open Loop (Fault) may correspond with OL1 and OL2 but not necessarily in that order and not under all conditions.
As an aside, not helpful to you because you don't have LPG... My last post I described a way I've got around the running OK closed loop off idle but running poor open loop fault mode at idle problem. Another method I've used is to adjust LPG calibration to make mixture OK for idle on LPG and gradually steered LPG calibration to bring fuel trims back to a range where mixture is also OK for petrol. The idea in both methods is to keep the engine running closed loop with correct mixture instead of reverting to open loop fault mode (which can happen if fuel trims min/max out for long enough) for long enough that fuel trims are steered, don't let lambda voltage hang high or low for long enough to cause the ECU to interpret this as a fault and become latched in fault mode with poor running.
I've seen similar problems with them but it's been a while. I don't have a Nano.
If it idles in closed loop mode with correct mixture (flicking lambda voltage) but idle is slow it points to IACV or TPS,
if it runs in closed loop mode with correct mixture off idle but reverts to open loop (and probably poor mixture) at idle I've found it can help to run the engine at fast enough idle to keep in closed loop mode, gradually reducing idle speed using the throttle as closed loop mode becomes active at lower rpm. And dare I say it, disconnecting the battery before all this seemed to help.
Seen missing Orings on MAFs on a lot of them that run fine so doubt that would be the problem.
Odd restart.... Is that randomly or cold engine versus warm engine?
If you do I'll be tempted to buy a P38 and join you :-)
Already lots of intelligence from Gilbert... most of the time lol.
Just P38's? A local guy (used to run a car paint shop) collects old military vehicles, tanks etc, probably has something that looks like a half track but would guess they're not allowed. In fact, would they be OK about a convoy going anyway?