The only way to test an DSP amp is to swap it into a known good system.....
I suppose you could strip the needed wiring and plugs out of a vehicle and make a bench test rig, but I
have always just used substitution. As Gilbert says, it is in a stupid out of the way place. and you get black goo on yer arms!
So, since I had a good rummage behind the dash, the Ebay radio I just bought is working fine.
Not sure where the issue is, however, I suspect the B+ pins are loose in the plug or plugs
since back probing them to test seems to have cleared the issue....Time to tear into the other heads and get
the Borrego sound system up and running now.
I will open up the head this weekend and get the backlight going and give the plugs a clean and tighten up.
Thanks Marty,
Good to see you back around!
I had suspected as much, so the phone plug was the first stop. Clean and dry. Swapping in a spare DSP amp changed nothing.
When I swapped heads from the Borrego, the issues with each head followed right along.
I bought a working head from Fleabay and dropped it in. Worked great for a few minutes, then shut itself off....
Then turned back on for a few seconds, then off but with a very short pop and display would flash. it did this
about once a second and appeared it was trying to fire up, suffered voltage drop, and shut down.....repeat......
I could make it go on, or indeed shut off by switching on the headlamps. Delta V somewhere!
Yesterday, I spent some quality time in the centre console, and behind the binnacle looking for possible earth issues. I extracted the radio harness and looked for frayed wires, or loose anything.....
Put it all back in having found no issues, then decided to back probe the plugs and see what the voltage was.
I got a bunch of wild readings however, when I was finished, things had settled, and it has worked since.
I suspect that possibly I have a loose connector pin, and back probing forced it in a bit further.
Will have a play with the plug to tweak the pins, and give them a clean. Meantime, the new head has a bad backlight on the right side of the display. Are these bulbs or Leds?
I know the faces come off with a plug, so I will swap in a known good display and see about mending the light.
Next, I will take on the Borrego and it's "crackling when ignition is switched on"......Again, I have tried 3 DSP amps in it, and the issue remains, even with no head unit plugged in. Hmmmmm Just had a thought:
Perhaps the crackle is an input from the sat nav? The factory unit is there and functional.
Does it talk directly to the DSP as well?
More things to try.
That was my first thought as well, so I used the heat gun on it to get it nice and toasty.
Opened it up and pulled off the front panel, to give it a look and a clean out. No obvious issues, no change in behavior.
No effect. As for cold? It has been very "cold" by my personal standards, but in the real world, not
much less than zero C.so not really too cold.......
Further, it works when cold, for about 2 minutes each morning, then shuts down.
I will try the "new" head in the Borrego this morning and see if there is any correlation.
I am still thinking Earth point, but I also feel I may have 2 different issues, that started at about the same time.
Need to start at one end and work to the other.......
Cheers!
Well,it is DSP, but that part works, when it works....
I had both radios in both 02's go out within 3 days of one another.
On Bolt, the unit would play for about 2 minutes in the morning, then started showing "Telephone" and going silent.
There is no phone and no cabling for one....Sometimes, once it cooled down, it might give me 2 more minutes of music, before
doing the same thing.
On the Borrego, it started showing me all of it's pixels on the display, A couple of days later the display went blank, then shortly thereafter it went silent.....
I tried swapping the heads from one to the other and also swapped in known working DSP amps.
The issues switched with the heads, so it was the heads.....
So, driving Bolt with the dead stereo, it would occasionally start "Popping" from the speakers.
I could effect this by hitting the brakes, or turning on the headlights. Points to an ground issue (Imagine that?!)
I did get in a known good head, and this worked well in Bolt, until I hit the brakes, then it shut off......
So, I believe the common earth point here is C0708-0 per Rave.......I cannot however find the section that tells me where this is?
I suspect it is the earth point under the radio? Little help Gilbert?
On another note, on the Borrego, it crackles when I turn on the ignition whether or not the head is plugged in or not!
It is not the DSP as I have swapped in both my good spares as well as the one from Bolt. Same result.
Kick panel plugs are clean and shiny......Where is the "Other plug" on the way to the DSP?
I know on the "other side" this crackling has been diagnosed as failing DSP. I do not believe this is so.
But with the DSP amp, who knows! I could be wrong;)
Hope to get some tunes going again soon!
Cheers,
Tom
That looks great, and is a good use for the space as well!
I would suggest fitting Gel or AGM SVRLA type batteries (Sealed Valve Regulated Lead Acid) as there will
be hydrogen, oxygen, and sulfur dioxide evolved in the normal course of charging.
These can be annoying at the least, and explosive at worst......
If you do wind up with flooded type batteries, possibly you could work out a way to vent the compartment out the
large hole in the bottom?
Also, if you use flooded batteries, it would be a bad idea to place the inverter in with them. Electronics do not like
battery gasses, and the inverter is a source of ignition as well. I have seen both corroded to death electronics
as well as batteries which have blown their tops off due to an inverter or a solar charge controller being in
the same box as the flooded batteries. Sealed is not nearly as big an issue, but still not "Best Practice" to put the electronics too near.
Putting the inverter where your battery is now would be a good solution as it will be cool and dry there. Safer too!
Cheers!
Update:
Things went very quiet after I sent photos, the correct part number for ALL P-38 header tank caps, and told them
they were basically totally wrong to state there was ever an different cap.
After threatening to start a payment dispute with Paypal, they finally got back to me.......
Blamed Covid, of course, and will be embarking upon an emergency Pull-Out-All-The-Stops build of an "Old Style" tank....
This, they promise to get to me ASAP.
With luck, it will be correct........I have asked that they send a photo of it prior to shipping.
Not that I do not trust them, it's just that I ABSOLUTELY do not trust them!
Time will tell.
In the meantime, I will have the $18 Amazon alloy wonder tank in 3 days, and will see if I can get it to slide in there.
I may need to have an 1/2 inch 90 deg elbow welded in the bottom in place of the fitting supplied, but other than smaller volume, it should do the job. Could be a really low cost alternative to ever cheaper plastic knock off tanks.
Allisport has ....or had, until their "design change", an customised cover for a bayonet cap. Looked pretty good too.
An outfit in Florida has the tank with sight glass as well. I would have bought from them, but I really wanted the switch version. I am still a bit hopeful they will come through, we shall see.
In the meantime, I found the small round job on Amazon for $19 bucks with free shipping......Ordered one. WCPGW?
Should get it next week, Quicker than anything the folks over there will achieve, I am sure, so will see.
Well, as it is an "Make offer" listing, I will offer 25 bucks and see what shows up!
How bad could it be?
May just need to have a local shop put on a larger dia bottom pipe....But perhaps not?
It is indeed a lower capacity, and I will not have a float switch, but I do not have one now, even tho I spent 210 pounds!
What the heck!
Hmmmmmm.
I preparing to order yet another plastic tank, as I have little faith Allisport will do the right thing......I stumbled upon this:
Looks like the bottom fitting is a but smallish, but possibly would work.
being LHD, I have plenty of room to install this shape tank.
For the price, just how bad could it be???
May order one just to see how bad it could be.....At least it comes with a cap!
Cheers!
I am inclined to agree at this point as they are clearly a bit delusional..........Sad really as they seemed to be a decent company. Their Neil Huggett, whoever he is should not be interfacing with customers as he is clearly not informed enough to do so. Whoever is feeding him erroneous information should, IHO, also be sacked!
Nevertheless, I am giving them a bit more rope, to see just how high they wish to hang :)
Anyone near Ledbury, Herefordshire that wants to pop round and show them what a P-38 tank top looks like?
They need help!
Here is my response to them: (It will be interesting to see how they respond)
Aloha Neil,
Yesterday? Sorry, no e mail, and no spam from you yesterday.
This is a tank, of whichever style, which looks like the GEMS model.
New or old does not enter into it. It is the wrong tank.
FURTHER, the cap for a P-38 Range Rover has remained the same for ALL years in ALL markets from 1995 through 2002.
The tank I ordered has provisions for the Throttle body return line, the radiator air bleed return line
as well as the overflow discharge line. That is 3 (THREE) small nipples by my count. This tank has only 2.
As there is physically no way for coolant to escape in case of an overheat, sending a screw cap would be useless, as the neck
has no provision for blow off.
So, the only way to sort this is to send me the correct tank which I ordered.
I have no idea how you have "since found " anything as i was assured by Jessica that you were changing designs,
thus out of stock, but I would be put on a list......
You further delayed by stating your "Welder was out sick"
By this logic, I have one of the first "New design" tanks manufactured, so there could really be no "we have since found"
I have posted a query on 2 Range rover forums and confirmed that the P-38 has only ever had a Black screw on pressure cap.
In all markets world wide. For your reference this is an PCD000070
So, the only solution that is going to satisfy me will be a replacement tank that matches Jessica's description as using the stock cap.
In other words: The tank i ordered and paid for.
Thank you for your prompt action to resolve this. Your company is highly regarded by the Range Rover community.
I will hope this was just a minor shipping error and can be rectified, and that I will be able to report that your customer
support is as reputed.
So far I have been frustrated, disappointed, and now insulted..........I would really like to be just plain satisfied
Regards,
Tom
Edit: Sorry, should have posted this in Oily Bits....No coffee yet.....Please feel free to shift it.
Aloha,
I seem to be getting the old "Baffle them with Bullshit" routine from Allisport!
They sent me a tank for a gems, which takes a cap that looks like it is from a Classic.....They sent no cap.
It has only 2 nipples, and no provision for over pressure blow off.
The last 8 weeks, I have been waiting for them to send their
"New Design" which is supposed to use the existing pressure cap rather than a bayonet style........
It seems they now are under the impression that "Some" P-38s were made with "Different caps".
YEA, Right!
Before this devolves into a trade war, can anyone recall seeing a P-38 with a plain screw on cap?
Here was his response this morning to my sending him pics of the tank they sent:
Comments welcome!
Hi Tom
After seeing the picture that you have sent it looks as if you have the new design which has replaced the original typr as shown in your first picture. The new design should fit the standard cap however we have since found that a few cars were built with a different cap which I imagine yours has. I can send a cap to you asap or we still have a few of the old parts so we could make an old style header tank for you but we don’t have any of the ALLISPORT caps so it would come with a standard bayonet cap.
Please let me know your preference so I can get this sorted for you.
If you are now trying to get the remainder of the sealant of the broken glass off the frame,
I have had very good luck using an electric heat gun to soften cured adhesives and remove them.
Not necessarily a good idea to remove goo from glass you wish to re use as differential heating can cause tempered glass to shatter.......
Well, as they say, big theories require bigger proofs!
So, are you positive the temperature of the air coming from the vents changes?
If so.....That's a good one!
If not, it is just possible that you are experiencing a bit of fluid dynamics.
If you have for instance a large Gin & Tonic, with ice.....and you rotate the glass, you would note that the ice and liquid
lag behind the container.
The same thing happens to the air mass inside a vehicle. If there is a warm pocket and a cold pocket, when you turn, the air will shift at a different rate than the container...in this case, a P-38.
I have not noted this on mine, however, in my large Ford work van in Hawaii, it was very noticeable as the smaller
air mass up front was cool, and the large air mass in the back was warm and humid. Turn either way, and things would be warmer or cooler.....
Try the experiment I mentioned. If it does not seem to work, drink that one, and make a bigger G&T.
Repeat till it works, or you forget what you were trying to prove!
Cheers,
Tom
Well CRUD! 300 bucks down and I am still using plastic!
I got my new Allysport tank just fine.
Took out the old one, fitted the sleek silver beauty, connected the hoses, filled, bled.......................Annnnd......
Discovered that the filler neck will in no way accept the stock cap!
The 1 1/2 month delay I experienced was due to the tank undergoing a resign to allow the use of the stock cap.
As they did not provide the cap, I figured that this is what I had. Nope, did not check first........
I have contacted them to ask what next.
On a side note, the return for the radiator bleed is on the side of the tank not the neck, so the pre formed
hard black plastic tube is not a nice fit and there is no provision for an overflow tube.
Possibly they just flat out sent the wrong tank??
Anyone used one of these?
Awaiting further developments......
Cheers!
EDIT: I looked at the part number I ordered, and it appears they dispatched the wrong tank!
Only has 2 nipples, not the three I need. Now to see how they handle this one!
Sighhhhh.........
Gilbert: Thanks! Of course, that would be the easiest solution.
The 85 did have a brass tank with the petrol motor, however when we dropped in the Tdi 300, we used it's tank as well.
Thus, I will want a tank cap for an Disco.
That would be a good option as well, and a bit less dosh! Could I trust the wife to heed the advice?.....Experience says a loud alarm and flashing light is what it takes to get the "other drivers" attention........
With the level switch, I will have a warning that the temp will rise SOON if I do not address the issue.
However, I look at this as an investment in my cooling system, and a way to eliminate what has been for me at least a very vexing problem. I just have very little faith in the currently available plastic tanks with all of the cheap Chinese knock offs out there.......
Mad-as.......Please do not misunderstand, I am as mean a bugger as they come!
I will however happily pinch a penny till it screams and in turn, buy something which I find to be good value!......Hang the cost!
A hand made, bespoke, "Custom" part like this? I could not do one myself, and I know it would be a bunch more if I commissioned a one off.
Cheers!
Marshall8hp wrote:
The $10 alternative. It might be worth considering.
That would indeed be an option, and I shall get hold of one to put in the Black plastic header tank on the 85 Classic
the next time I am in Oz..........The black one I have on the 300Tdi are a MUCH tougher plastic than the white ones.
The major problem from my standpoint is that I have had 4 tank failures on 3 vehicles in the last 15 years.......
I count myself lucky that each time I caught it before anything overheated.
I cannot see spending about the same amount to get an Range Rover branded plastic tank, although
it would probably be fine, I know this one will not leak, or suddenly burst on me. (Do it once, and do it right!)
Honestly, I am a bit surprised that there was never an option for the switch from the factory. I believe I read somewhere that there is provision of some sort in the Becm for low coolant, but they must have run out of I/O spaces on the CPU and dropped the switch option.
Even tho' I will be a bit poorer in the $$$ department, I shall be a happy camper when I get this installed!
Mad-as: For $300 bucks, I get the tank, and a low level float switch, and about $75 dollars shipping charge.
I will post the results.......
:
Well, I was finally able to order my Christmas present to self this evening.......
Allysport got their welder back from sick leave and caught up with back orders.
To replace the nice new German plastic tank that proceeded to split at a seam within 30 days, (Got my 89 bucks back from Parts Geek)
I have dropped $299 Yankee dollars into the UK economy (Glad to do my bit to help out!) to procure a new header tank with float switch!
Lot of $$ for a header tank, but you look at the number of times that an overheat due to loss of coolant
has triggered a series of expensive repairs, or in a few cases I know of, the final trip on a flatbed to the
knackers yard for an otherwise perfect P-38......I recon it is a cheap investment to be able to eliminate one more possible worry.
Now to figure out which section of the cluster to use to install my indicator.....Thoughts?
I also have a sonalert which will go under the dash and should wake you up quickly if the coolant level drops.
Cheers!
You get 1 free post of your choice!
And, I will buy anyone who shows up here a beer!
(I would anyway.....)