The data centres running those cloud services suck up an awful lot of electircity though, so the carbon footprint ends up
davew wrote:

Ah, I see LPGC; But don't hybrid drivers get Emissions Zone 'breaks' anyway ?...

Incidentally the Hybrid drivers i have spoken with have major issues with their expected overall MPGs too......
eg. "Might be OK for pottering about but not on the open roads"...

Maybe you should watch the fuller video and/or.read the EV1 book though, as it was clearly GM who did it.with 'encouragement' from the oil lobby !

Not sure the Betamax/VHS analogy works too well here (as both were developed in parallel) but perhaps a DVD/Cloud comparison works better (?) in which case EVs will be leased-only and/or shared ownership.... wait.... that was GM's EV1 model ! (But to be fair their batteries were pretty bad 20 years ago....)

Seriously though kids don't want DVD's anymore - thanks to Netflix/Broadband etc of course and (- wait for it -) their need for smaller Carbon Footprints !

The thing with that is those services rely on huge datacentres, that guzzle electricity 24/7, so unless its coming from renewable sources, it would probabbly work out to giving a bigger carbon footprint than the traditional DVD type distribution.

I've seen a handful of Toyota Priuses (or however you describe more than one) filling with LPG at various times when I've been filling up - and every one of them has been a taxi. From speaking to the drivers, they say they will run around for about 6p/mile in fuel once converted. I can see hybrids having their place (makes more sense when your crawling through traffic on a longer journey to not be running the engine if you didn't need to, without having the problems of range/charging times/availability of charging points to consider).

StrangeRover wrote:

They're plastic bodied injectors

According to the invoice.

Lpg system is listed as "AC STAG PREMIUM"
The Reducer is OMVL

The installation in 2013 was £1879

In 2015 it had what seemed to be a £704 service.

Bit string imo!!

If you mean steep, then I'd agree yes it is. Are they these injectors (yours will be a bank of 4 not 3 like these, but Tinley don't have them listed anymore)
https://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/lpg-parts/injectors/injectorsrails/omvl-injector-rail-3-cylinder-dream-xxi-sl-904527-no-ts/

If they are those, they are the SL type - Which are capable and decent injectors. You can just see the nozzles fitted to the ones in the photos, I've got a Thor 4.0 running on 2 sets of them without a problem (and without nozzles fitted as per Simon's advice).

You really need to get a lead to look at whats wrong with it as it stands, Luckily Stag uses one of the common leads so if you do go down the route of swapping kit, you could probably reuse the lead (or swap pins around to reuse it otherwise)

BRC isn't really a good option if you want to DIY it as access to the software is difficult, though not as bad as Prins - Simon would be best to ask on this point, but my impression is the kit isn't particularly good in the mapping side either. Might help to replace some of the bits of your existing front end (we know its a stag ECU, but not what other bits have been used with it?) as well as address installation issues at the same time. But get petrol working correctly first or reassure yourself it is working as it should do.

Might help to check though, the split intake pipe you mention right at the top of the thread - has this been replaced or fixed in some way? If its split after the MAF you won't get anywhere until you seal it again somehow (ideally replace it with a decent hose) as you will have unmetered air getting in. A fault like that will only get more noticable on gas as it will generally throw the petrol ecu trims out, which the gas ecu will then compensate for, which in turn will throw them out further still till you get to a point where it won't run well if at all. Add the possibility of any install issues on the lpg side into that, and you can have both systems trying to correct what the other is doing which just will not work.

Agree on the MAF - The Thor I've got (though its a Disco rather than a p38) had some noname MAF on it when I first had it, and it was noticable that it was running rich, the proper Bosch replacement MAF made a noticable difference though had to change a few other things around the same time prior to that (both lamdba sensors being amongst them). I get around 300 miles to approx 95 litres of gas out of it, but the Disco is a bit lighter than the p38 is due to the lack of extra toys on it. I could get around 19.5 mpg on a motorway run on petrol using cruise control for the most part, if that helps compare (measured by filling tank and resetting trip, then filling again and calculating how many miles against fuel used when refilled)

Gilbertd wrote:

I bet the injector nozzles are in the upper inlet manifold and not down near the petrol injectors like they should be. That'll give you poor throttle response.

Not only will that give poor response, theres the added downside of it being very easy to get banks mismatched like that due to the design of it. So you could have 2 cylinders on one bank and 2 on the other wired to a single petrol bank. You should be able to tell that by following injector wiring, but it may need reference to the software as well.

You'd probably benefit from getting hold of a lead for the lpg ecu and finding out what its objecting to as a first step, once you've cleared up the reason for it failing to switch over it may be worth seeing if you can switch a few cylinders over and monitor what happens with the engine when you do so, I'd suspect some will show up running much worse than others do (as one cylinder will get a double dose of fuel, while the other one in its pairing will get none at all in that state). If they are in the top bit of the tracts, once you know its working it would be an idea to improve the location of them anyway.

If it is the cat breaking up, you might find it can be dislodged to somewhere else in the exhaust with a run at higher revs, I had the same happen and it would consistently rattle at idle, a blast up the dual carriageway locked in 2nd stopped the rattle. Though its probably a sign of more to come if the cats started breaking up, and might dislodge more of it. Best solution would be to remove the cat and inspect it if possible, at least to see if anything comes out if you tip it on its end.

Wasnt too impressed with what was on offer at the last one they did at Newbury. Some bargains but nothing you couldn't find elsewhere without spending an entire day at it.

You missed your lunch break out of the calculation there! Different situation can understand why it works for you, its the moving the car repeatedly in some places that annoys me more as there just isn't anywhere you can leave it for more than a couple of hours.

Morat wrote:

I smell the influence of the motor trade. They don't want old vehicles passing new standards, they much prefer scrappage schemes.

I don't quite understand how it can be acceptable for the motor industry to build millions of cars per year and justify this production with a percentage reduction in tailpipe emissions.

Surely the environmental costs of construction need to be calculated and added to the tailpipe emissions over the lifetime of the vehicle to give true value for the environmental impact of car ownership. This would imply that a car that lasts longer will be less damaging.

To call them Zero emission is also wrong - they still produce brake dust and tyre debris both of which are particulates. I'd agree with you on the planes front too, they need to make the other options competitive somehow, though the only solution the idiots we currently have in charge will be to make the flights more expensive somehow which won't really solve anything.

Yeah sorry, should have defined that a bit better - older petrols, and most diesels (pre 2016 I think currently?)

Theres several reasons I try to avoid driving that far into London and use the tube instead, even if it is a pain carrying a rucksack of tools and another bag with me, its still preferable to driving in and trying to find somewhere to park.

FWIW Simon, the Galaxy you saw recently, is ULEZ compliant. At least their checker shows it is, and others of the same model seem the same as well when I checked, even if its only Euro 3 rated. Which surprised me for a 2001 vehicle. So its possible certainly and not as clear cut as it being 2006 onwards that the website at first suggests. CC is not so easy but at least that takes half of the cost off of it.

Bear in mind that even if you manage to get round the ULEZ though, that alot of the on-street parking has a +50% loading on the normal rate for older vehicles. Which can mean its costing approx £6.50 an hour to park on the street as well (which with something the size of the Elgrand might be the only place you could park it)

Lpgc wrote:

I might have a Chinese tonight lol.

On topic is ;'zero carbon emissions from the uk by 2030 :-('. Which would have to involve getting rid of all our ice cars by then...
And Romanrob's got a fuelling problem...

I think hes currently thinking along the lines of a petrol injector issue of some sort, at least based on the post in the other thread.

I've got a Nanocom with the p38 bits added on it (Green lead and the p38 systems unlock code), Closest I can do is Belper area if thats any help, but it won't be immediately as would be a case of taking it to my mates place and meeting you there. May end up closer with work if your not in too much of a Hurry. Or if your near Milton Keynes area at any point?

Have got only the Thor engine bits loaded on it for p38 though. No GEMS or EDC at this time.

If the rear windows on the P38 are anything like those on the Disco 2, then the lower edge of the frame may have started to disintregate and fallen into other bits of the door. It may be worth removing the inner door card to have a look before you order anything, Its the bit on the quarter light and the bit that clamps the glass that gives up on the Disco. It caused me to have to replace 3 of the door locks after having bits of rusty metal drop inside them (least I think thats what caused the problems with them, I got fed up after swapping the drivers one out for the third time to find it still didn't work so ended up ordering a new one rather than wasting more money on eBay only to discover every one of the "tested" ones off ebay didn't actually work).

The metal on metal bang sounds very much like the sound my broken front glass clamp made, due to it being in at least 3 pieces that weren't connected anymore.

Do they flicker any differently on your car compared to the neighboring cylinders? Like an occasional failing to light when it should fire? If its suspected the cat has been damaged by misfires, do you know if its one side of the car that seems to have suffered more? (as that might give a clue where you should be looking for the source of the misfires)

Gilbertd wrote:

Lpgc wrote:

Should invent a small petrol engine'd vac, would only need a petrol tank of a few millilitres to have the same power and running time as the Dyson and I could clean up emissions by converting to run on a lighter refill canister ;-)

Sounds like a plan to me but where would you find the motor? I've got a hedge trimmer powered by a 36cc engine and a strimmer/brush cutter with a 49cc motor but both are two stroke. So how do you get the oil in with the fuel if running on gas? I've also got a motor mower but a vac powered by a 149cc Briggs and Stratton might be a bit cumbersome......

Flashlube type setup should work, just need to find somewhere to put the second tank and fill it with two stroke oil instead? Not sure you'd want a two stroke engine indoors though, even on gas. What happened to the engine out of your old SE that should have some cleaning power?

Bear in mind also that the various drive cycle tests aren't really great for reflecting real world driving conditions either - as has been shown by the diesel emissions saga vehicles can be engineered to pass the tests/perform well on paper but this has little bearing on the real world use of them. It also looked like the first test cycle listed (I think this was urban?) was worse whilst the others looked lower. You'd need a good idea of what the urban test actually entails to see if this would be anywhere close to real world conditions.

Morat wrote:

Trouble is, according to that long and not exactly thrilling pdf I link to earlier, LPG isn't that great for NOx. Better then diesel but worse than petrol.
It's a small sample size, but I haven't actually seen much research into the actual emissions produced by the various fuels.

In that particular test yes, but if you read this bit
"NOx emissions (figure 10) from both vehicles fuelled with all fuels were lower than 30% of the Euro 6 limit. For vehicle A, emissions of NOx were considerably higher when running on LPG (a difference of 35% over the entire NEDC), but for vehicle B they were 10% lower when running on CNG. The engine calibration and the precise chemistry of the TWC have a great impact on NOx emissions and it is possible that for other vehicles fuelled with petrol and with LPG or CNG in turn these trends could be contrary."

That would suggest the results may be different on a different vehicle for whatever reason (engine design, calibration not quite right/kit not well suited to the particular vehicle, etc etc, though it should be pretty close to whats required given they are manufacturer conversions).

Richard - Reading your link further back up the thread, it looks like Scotland are not following the model used elsewhere in the UK (mainly England as far as I can tell) and are banning vehicles altogether from the zones rather than allowing payment of a charge (and fining anyone who drives into them in a non-compliant vehicle instead). It does also mention the Bristol scheme as far as its possible to do so (as its not decided yet what they will do), which is just targeting diesels as its NOx they need to reduce.

They had best do something about the planes then.

Incidentally I was working in Bristol today, and it appears they are bringing in some sort of Diesel zone from what was being said to cover the city centre area. Not very clear on what it was going to do, but would suspect it would be charging to enter the area as in other places.