Unleaded fuel was a fiasco. The motor industry was being forced to clean up tailpipe emissions and the simplest option (for them) was to introduce catalysts to burn off the nasties - into nice clean CO2 which doesn't hurt anything.
The other option was Lean Burn technology which burnt a lot less fuel to start with, but needed much more precise engine management and new engines.
So... catalysts won out. Fast forward 30 years and it was absolutely the wrong thing to do as it increases CO2 emissions and introduced a massively poisonous carcinogen to the population.

I also agree that the underlying issue in all of this is the huge increase in population. As an example, India has gone from 382m population in 1950 to 1.393Bn now. An increase of 1bn people in just one country!
However, there's no rational way to reduce the world's population in time to save it from global warming short of mass kilings. So, the pragmatic decision has been made - get carbon neutral asap.
This involves a lot of sacrifice, including ICE vehicles, eagles being killed by windfarms, large areas of countryside polluted by battery production, and probably in the near future the cost of international travel is going to go through the roof.
You may have noticed a marked reluctance to bail out airlines that are being decimated by Covid. I suspect that's because airlines will soon have to be culled anyway as airliners burn tonnes of oil an hour. Battery-powered airliners are just about feasible, but horribly expensive.

The penny dropped for me when I realised that the governments really don't care about pollution right now, it's Global Warming that they're shitting themselves over and that's why huge areas of the North Sea are now wind farms and EVs are being pushed so hard despite the fact that Hydrogen could provide a much smoother changeover. It is easier to transport than Electricity and it can be burnt in traditional petrol engines or used to power EVs using a fuel cell at much greater efficiency. BUT it isn't ready yet, and EVs pretty much are. And hey, we can swap from batteries to fuel cells in EVs at a later date. Maybe.

As for the sea levels, the link upthread explains why you see local drops in sea level. It's a really cool web page.

I reckon you're right! The trailer had wheels quite far back and the Jeep engine was well forward of the front trailer axle. I had the tow bar (of the Jeep) just over the rear of the trailer so there wasn't much more space available at the back.

Having checked on the Ifor Williams site it wasn't a car trailer at all but a low loader, but it was plated higher than anything in their current range and had vehicle ramps and a really heavy duty plywood deck.

Apparently the previous owner used to drag a 3.5 ton tracked digger on it so that probably explains why The Duchess got a bit breathless going up a 13% hill.

Still, she managed it all Ok and there were no wobbles at all. It's always fun to learn new skills 😀

I borrowed an Ifor Williams vehicle trailer from a mate (massive thing!) and towed my Jeep to Elland in West Yorkshire to get a new head gasket.
It was the first time if loaded anything like that amount of weight on a trailer and....I lived!
It was quite sensitive to the steering so I definitely stuck to 60 on the dual carriageway. I probably had to much nose weight, but it turns out that ratchet straps are my Kryptonite.
It's hilly near Elland but I didn't drop a Jeep on any locals so I'm calling it a win 😀

Gilbertd wrote:

From wikipedia:
Gems " Lucas "
4.0 - 190hp @ 4750rpm & 320nm "236 LB-FT" @ 3200rpm
4.6 - 225hp @ 4750rpm & 380nm "280 LB-FT" @ 3200rpm

Bosch "Motronic"
4.0 - 188hp @ 4750rpm & 339nm "250 LB-FT" @ 2600rpm
4.6 - 218hp @ 4750rpm & 407nm "300 LB-FT" @ 2600rpm

So the GEMS 4.6 produces more power than the Thor at the expense of a bit of bottom end grunt and the Thor 4.0 litre (as used in the Disco) is the least powerful. However, I've got two GEMS, a 4.0 litre and a 4.6 and in all honesty the difference in performance isn't really noticeable when driving.

In the absence of a rolling road......
GEMS never made the quoted power, which lead to court cases in the US. BMW took over, made some upgrades (intake and motronic, I don't know what else) and made more reasonable claims that didn't lead to any more court cases.

I suspect that the Motronic engines actually make more power than a GEMS seeing as they have a more modern intake and Fuel Injection - but I've no data and it's quite possible that they lost power due to stricter emissions regs. But.. the quoted figures are particularly unreliable when it comes to the RV8.

Drove it to work again.. like most days now. Overtook a pickup and trailer and gave him a nice v8 roar through his open window. Lucky chap.

Ok.. well I didn't have to register to watch the video, just refuse a few cookies.

In any event, Carbon on its own isn't the issue. Carbon Dioxide is the problem because it is a greenhouse gas - ie releasing lots of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere increases global temperature because CO2 helps trap energy from the sun. There are plenty of other greenhouse gases, possibly the most worrying being Methane.

Oil, Coal and Gas (fossil fuels) are made from ancient living creatures that died in large numbers and were rotted down together to form large reserves of energy rich fuels. Life on Earth is based on carbon, so the fossil fuels are carbon-rich and burning them produces CO2. This then goes up into the atmosphere and does its greenhouse gas thing, increasing the average temperature of the Earth each year.

Looking back in time we can take the Jurassic era as an example. CO2 levels were much higher than now. But, the earth cooled as all that carbon was captured by prehistoric plants who breathed it in, turned it into biomass, and then in turn were either compressed into coal after they died or eaten by dinosaurs* who rotted down into oil and gas. Now we're releasing all the captured carbon once more and - hey presto - global temperatures are back on the rise.

OK, the earth has cooled and heated in the past - but it has done it very slowly and life has adapted to follow the changes. We're just burning stuff, and the current changes in temperature appear to be faster than any the Earth has seen before which is going to make it very hard for life to adapt fast enough to cope.

One extra fun fact is that the hotter the earth gets, the higher the sea levels rise because the polar ice caps melt. In the Jurassic, sea temps at the equator are estimated to have been up to 30C. At the current rate, the sea is rising at 3.3mm per year.
You don't need to register to see this link from NASA
https://www.nasa.gov/specials/sea-level-rise-2020/

*well, it more likely that it was plankton and other tiny sea creatures who formed the oil reserves when they died and fell down into sediments at the bottom of the sea but there were probably some big marine dinosaurs in there too.

Yes, absolutely - but let's be clear. The vast majority of new cars are sold on lease to people who replace them after 3 years, and probably do the same with their white goods. These vehicles are not only wasteful at build time, but they run on fossil fuels. If we can keep a P38 running 20+ years, we're probably looking at 50% of the build "cost" of your average econobox that lasts 8 years on average. (econoboxes generally being smaller and the modern ones have to make at least a nod towards being made of recyclable materials).

However, the short term issue (by global standards) is CO2, NOx and other greenhouse gases - and it seems that governments are absolutely prepared to make compromises on other forms of pollution to escape climate change caused by greenhouse gases. The cost isn't really an issue either when the alternative is disruption to weather, crop growth and rising sea levels that will have economic implications that dwarf the cost of changing to a carbon neutral economy.

I'm happy to drive my P38 and Jeep on LPG, but I don't hold out much hope for it being viable for much longer. The LPG garages are closing and the end of sales of fossil-fueled cars has been announced - it's only going one way. Vehicles will still be sold on lease to the sort of people who really really value what it says on their number plate - but they'll all be electric and they won't produce CO2 while they're being driven.

mad-as, sorry mate but you need to educate yourself. Here's a start.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/global-warming-real

Runs OK on open loop, then goes to closed loop and takes 30s to re-set the trims correctly? Just a guess, and probably wrong.
You might have some codes in your motronic to help you narrow this down.

Symes wrote:

What everyone seems to forget ---- how much damage to environment just getting metal for batteries And when old - what to do with old batteries Also they probably cost more than vehicle would be worth ----- I'd stick to old petrol engine and make alcohol to run it on like biofuel

You're right about battery manufacture, and there is still debate as to whether even electric cars are the long term future, but it seems that the debate has been settled in the medium term. We WILL all be driving electric cars within 20-30 years, the decision has been made. The good news is that Tesla batteries are heading towards 300,000 miles per pack now (with a warranty varying from 100,000miles / 8years up to 150,000miles / 8years depending on model) and the current Tesla3 is (allegedly) meant to be a million-mile car, assuming you replace the batteries 3-4 times during its life.

However, it does seem that the environmental cost of battery manufacture is being considered and there is still debate about Hydrogen being the long-term fuel choice since it can at least be used, transported, and stored in a similar way to fossil fuels. Well, more like LPG than petrol. The bottom line is that governments are now genuinely shitting themselves about global warming caused by greenhouse gasses. Even the Chinese - the world's biggest polluters - are signing up for real change which is a sign that this isn't just a load of bollox dreamt up by some sandal wearing hippies. In the grand scheme of things, a few thousand people dying of Cadmium poisoning, or a few lakes killed off by lithium mining isn't a big deal if it saves 1 degree of global warming. Hell, things are so desparate that we're back to building nuclear power plants as fast as possible, simply because they produce less CO2 than Natural Gas. Remember, Uranium has a half life of 400 million years - that's the sort of environmental debt that the world's leaders are now prepared to take on in order to get us away from the immediate threat of global warming. 2050 is going to be an interesting year for those of us who make it.

Congrats on beating your P38 into shape! It sounds like you were getting off lightly until the liner issue hit. May I ask who did your rebuild? If it was a DIY then you score many man-points for skill and masochism :)

Well, I'd estimate it won't happen for another three Governments at least, so there's plenty of chance for things to change a few times!
Average age of cars on the road right now is about 8 years in the UK. I'd reckon that there will be a bit of "last chance" spike in petrol/diesel car sale in 2029 and then 8-10 years later electric cars will be in the majority.

or the original original :)
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1309690

I think my point is there's a long way to go before the P38 can really be called a classic. People like to put "Appreciating classic, get them before they're gone" type statements on the bottom of ads but I think it's premature. I'd love it if the P38 took off and The Duchess magically appreciated to £40k in the next 18 months but it's not something I'm going to bet on.

More generally, I'm worried that the whole classic car market will be fundamentally affected by the swap to electric cars. It's going to happen, and at some point, petrol will become hard to obtain and eventually fossil-fuelled cars are going to be made impractical for the masses. It might be a simple ban, more likely I suspect it'll be massive taxation which will allow the 1% to drive their classics and rub it in our faces.

Lots of nice cheap metal there :)

https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/hagerty-market-analysis-bmw-m3/

I take back the comment about 4x4s :)

But, the P38 hasn't reached the level of desirability of some others, like the Nissan Patrols and some Landcruisers.

Will it? Maybe. The favoured option seems to be the D2. I can't imagine why, but they're regarded as the connoisseur's choice amongst green oval fanatics - over the P38 at least. I don't know how it measures up against a D90 pickup, maybe it's just down to how many LED lighting bars you can fit on it :)

StrangeRover wrote:

In todays age you have tor really think what makes a classic..

This!

Sadly I don't know if the market is ready for lumbering old 4x4s to join the ranks of the exhalted :/

I bought my 1997 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 for £999 with a dodgy MOT and a barely working LPG system in 2013.
It's now worth about 6-7k. Bargain? kinda. I've probably spend £6k on it rectifying faults and upgrading here and there. It now runs beautifully (although it's about to get another HG). It's no Ferrari 250SWB California but I'll hang onto it.
I've certainly enjoyed owning it a lot more than sticking £200 a month into a finance plan to drive a generic hatch.

StrangeRover and Richard are both right, but my opinion is that it still remains to be seen if the P38 will really take off as a classic. It hasn't yet, and there are reasons which would make me hesitant to bet the farm - not least of which is what we're going to do with thirsty old V8s when the LPG dries up.

Yes, they are good cars. Their problem is that they are widely misunderstood so people don't immediately say "Ooh, look at that" when they see one go past in the same way that they do for an E30 M3, Lancia Integrale, Escort Mexico or Sierra Cosworth - all of which could be bought for £5k at some point in their history.

I don't think the P38's time has come yet. There are too many around, they have a bad reputation for reliability and they have long been regarded as the runt of the Land Rover litter by the Benny-Hat wearing One Lifers. This is excellent news for anyone wanting a luxury car for an absolute bargain, but not so great for collectors.
dhallworth, if I was in your position I'd hold if practical. Nice examples will get rarer and their prices will rise. Will the P38 be regarded as a classic? It's hard to tell, but my gut says it won't ever be The One to be seen in. The cars that do really well are the ones that kids lusted after in their teens/twenties and still want to buy when they have some disposable income in middle age. Did anyone have a picture of a Range Rover on their bedroom wall?